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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Badwe" data-source="post: 4693473" data-attributes="member: 61762">So... if I understand correctly, your point is that everything that is wrong with 4e is either because it's 4e or because of WotC's marketing, and everything that is working with it has nothing to do whatsoever with it being 4e and everything to do with a marketing strategy that could be applied to any edition?  Frankly, that is a cop out.I offer as a counter to your theories the following: not only my group, but 2 other groups I keep in contact with had all played 3.x edition previously. If anything, the marketing that roped us in first was likely the work of 3.x, and yet all of us have made the jump to 4e.  Further, one of the new players we introduced was eager after having, as a young teen, read the AD&D monster manual front to back and never having anyone to play with.  In this case, the "marketing" was done by AD&D.Again, this is only anecdotal evidence on my part, but those of us happy with 4e seem to be firing at a moving target.  Is it players in, players out mechanics, marketing, or something else that people find issue with 4e over? Honestly if I wanted to read this kind of blind hatred, I would go to an Xbox360 vs. PS3 forum.  If someone has antipathy for 4e that is all well and good, but no amount of supposed "proof" of the faults of WotC and 4e is going to convince anyone.  I feel like each of the editions are better served by contributing constructively to our own posts rather than engaging in these asinine comparisons of player count.</blockquote>

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