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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Mournblade94" data-source="post: 4694344" data-attributes="member: 74608">I said everything that was wrong with 4e?  Yes clearly you misunderstand then.  I was pointing out why it MAY be bringing in more players.  If you like I will compile my list of everything wrong with 4e.  I did not list them here however.  I can easily counter this with my gaming group experience as well.  I am in a larp which brings in many new players.  We are over 100 strong and contain many gaming groups.  We are in North New Jersey. Easily, I can say both the old school gamers of the group and the younger sets 14-22, think 4e is like playing D&D Miniatures, so they play other systems.  Out of all the 100 enthusiastic gamers, not one feels the need to play 4e over third edition or another system. Big deal.  You did not actually refute the point.   There will never be data for how many people STAY in 4e.  As far as WOTC knows I love 4e because I bought the three core and some supplemental books before playing a few sessions.  I added to the sales as someone who tried it and found it woefully wanting.</blockquote>