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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Darkthorne" data-source="post: 4477705" data-attributes="member: 60783"><p>Remathilis,</p><p>Taken in context there is no fallacy (or is it there is no spoon?). The total maximum number of 1st level spells a 4e Wizard will ever know is 7 that can be cast in battle and that is both human and Expanded Spellbook. You have 3 human wizards in the same group there is going to be serious duplication, 5 different at wills with 9 choices to be made. Then when you take Dailies into account 4 different dailies with 6 choices to be made. 3.5 at the start taking Collegiate Training 18 Int is 10 (6+int mod) that's 3 more right there. Also there is nothing stopping a 3.5 wizard from learning more 1st level spells, so as I see it more versatility. There is 14 1st 4e spells, 3.5 not including the pro from spells has 14 that can be used in combat (just from the phb, and I know people could take others and use them in combat as well) listed below. While taking feats in 4E to increase your spellbook, it increases your duplication with another pc, doing the same option in 3.5 increases versatility w/o the immediate duplication issue.</p><p> </p><p><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="color: white">burning hands</span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="color: white">cause fear</span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="color: white">charm person</span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="color: white">chill touch</span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="color: white">color spray</span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="color: white">grease</span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="color: white">hold person</span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="color: white">hold portal</span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="color: white">hypnotism</span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="color: white">magic missile</span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="color: white">ray of enfeeblement</span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="color: white">shield</span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="color: white">shocking grasp</span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: white">sleep</span></span></span></p></blockquote><p></p>

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