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<blockquote data-quote="Scribble" data-source="post: 4478564" data-attributes="member: 23977"><p>Hrmmm I dissagree. I think it's a case of <u>not</u> using a sledge hammer when you really want to use a normal hammer. See below.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I think what's being missed might be the "order" in which things work in 4e.</p><p></p><p>In 3e they seemed to go from a top down approach. What does the word incorpreal mean? What effects should it have? What things should not effect it, etc. Start at the top and work your way down.</p><p></p><p>In 4e they take a bottom up approach. Define only the basic needs. You can walk through walls, and take 1/2 damage. Then, as they design other elements they can then add functions based on keywords. This attack does not effect creatures with the "incorpreal" keyword.</p><p></p><p>Same thing with Grab.</p><p></p><p>Grab does not = grapple in the 3e sense. Grab is just the first part. The actual, well, grabbing part. It's intentionally minimal because it's the springboard from which your other options start. It's the very bottom level of the bottom up aproach. </p><p></p><p>I might have a monster with a special power, but it needs to grab first to enact it. I might have a special attack, but it involves a grab to achieve it.</p><p></p><p>Designing from the bottom up allows you to achieve different effects, without having to plan them all from the start. I could say, invent an action such as "flip." All I need to do is design the base idea of what is a flip, and how to enact it. Then, I can add on powers that utilize "flip" as the basic first step. It doesn't matter how many new things add on, because I haven't designed everything you can do with flip. </p><p></p><p>It might seem like sloppy or bad mechanics if you try to approach it from the top down angle, but it's not. It's just different.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I'm not sure exactly what you mean. Can you elaborate?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Scribble, post: 4478564, member: 23977"] Hrmmm I dissagree. I think it's a case of [U]not[/U] using a sledge hammer when you really want to use a normal hammer. See below. I think what's being missed might be the "order" in which things work in 4e. In 3e they seemed to go from a top down approach. What does the word incorpreal mean? What effects should it have? What things should not effect it, etc. Start at the top and work your way down. In 4e they take a bottom up approach. Define only the basic needs. You can walk through walls, and take 1/2 damage. Then, as they design other elements they can then add functions based on keywords. This attack does not effect creatures with the "incorpreal" keyword. Same thing with Grab. Grab does not = grapple in the 3e sense. Grab is just the first part. The actual, well, grabbing part. It's intentionally minimal because it's the springboard from which your other options start. It's the very bottom level of the bottom up aproach. I might have a monster with a special power, but it needs to grab first to enact it. I might have a special attack, but it involves a grab to achieve it. Designing from the bottom up allows you to achieve different effects, without having to plan them all from the start. I could say, invent an action such as "flip." All I need to do is design the base idea of what is a flip, and how to enact it. Then, I can add on powers that utilize "flip" as the basic first step. It doesn't matter how many new things add on, because I haven't designed everything you can do with flip. It might seem like sloppy or bad mechanics if you try to approach it from the top down angle, but it's not. It's just different. I'm not sure exactly what you mean. Can you elaborate? [/QUOTE]
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