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<blockquote data-quote="Obryn" data-source="post: 4480140" data-attributes="member: 11821">I definitely think they're less central than they were in 3e, but it seems to me that magic items have been vital for most of the life of the game...In 1e/2e, you had the all-powerful Girdles of Giant Strength and Gauntlets of Ogre Power.&nbsp; No self-respecting Fighter or Barbarian went without one. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />&nbsp; You also definitely needed magic weapons, since so many monsters were completely immune to weapons below a certain +.&nbsp; Everyone wanted Rings of Protection, and it was rare to see a character without one by higher levels.&nbsp; Are you a Thief?&nbsp; Well, you'd be advised to find these Elven Cloak and Boots so you never need to worry about hiding again.There certainly wasn't a magic item shop, but in my memory (at least), magic items were quite important under 1e/2e - in fact, they provided a lot of the mechanical differentiation between characters.&nbsp; They were hugely vital in 3e - particularly for non-casters.&nbsp; They're much less vital in 4e than they were in 3e, but I still don't think they're down to the 1e/2e level.As for what book they're in...&nbsp; For a 3e or 4e style game, I like having them in the PHB.&nbsp; By the time you're making higher-level characters, you need to have access to magic items.&nbsp; Also, in any game which lets you make magic items (both 3e and 4e), the players need to know basically what they can make.&nbsp; Putting them in the PHB means players don't need to buy, beg, borrow, or steal a DMG.For 1e or 2e, where PCs didn't ever make magic items, and where magic items were seen more as &quot;loot to find&quot; instead of &quot;stuff to buy/make,&quot; having them in the DMG was great.-O</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Obryn, post: 4480140, member: 11821"] I definitely think they're less central than they were in 3e, but it seems to me that magic items have been vital for most of the life of the game... In 1e/2e, you had the all-powerful Girdles of Giant Strength and Gauntlets of Ogre Power. No self-respecting Fighter or Barbarian went without one. :) You also definitely [I]needed[/I] magic weapons, since so many monsters were completely immune to weapons below a certain +. [I]Everyone[/I] wanted Rings of Protection, and it was rare to see a character without one by higher levels. Are you a Thief? Well, you'd be advised to find these Elven Cloak and Boots so you never need to worry about hiding again. There certainly wasn't a magic item shop, but in my memory (at least), magic items were quite important under 1e/2e - in fact, they provided a lot of the mechanical differentiation between characters. They were hugely vital in 3e - particularly for non-casters. They're much [I]less[/I] vital in 4e than they were in 3e, but I still don't think they're down to the 1e/2e level. As for what book they're in... For a 3e or 4e style game, I like having them in the PHB. By the time you're making higher-level characters, you need to have access to magic items. Also, in any game which lets you make magic items (both 3e and 4e), the players need to know basically what they can make. Putting them in the PHB means players don't need to buy, beg, borrow, or steal a DMG. For 1e or 2e, where PCs didn't ever make magic items, and where magic items were seen more as "loot to find" instead of "stuff to buy/make," having them in the DMG was great. -O [/QUOTE]

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