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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Mustrum_Ridcully" data-source="post: 4486710" data-attributes="member: 710">Hey, you're still around?! Of course, not playing D&D probably reduces the post quota. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />1) It is badwrongfun2) This will never end, until ones person superior play-style and mind has been proven once and for all and be adopted by everyone. [spoiler]Sorry.[/spoiler]You're correct that most of the advantages that tend to be described are from the DM side. I wouldn't conclude yet that it's less fun from the players side (of course this might be your experience, I would just hesitate to generalize it yet.)Why I say so - because I also greatly enjoy the game as a player. There are several improvements for my player side: 1) No Combat Matrix. As a player, I often had to write up several variations of my full attack routine (attacks + damage), depending on the buffs that I gained. The math was not "hard" (it's just addition or subtraction), but it still felt very tedious. And how often do we forget one or two modifiers? 2) Less frustrations. The game often included frustrating moments - rolling terribly bad against a save or death/sit (rolling good and still failing happened less, but was still not the best experience), unable to hit a monster, constantly being hit by a monster, unable to damage a monster (rarely due to DR, often due to sneak attack immunity). I can always contribute, and my effectiveness depends only on tactics (and my dice rolls). Even the few "sit"-effects 4E has get less problematic due to the fact that each round is over faster and I get to roll a save every round. (Rolling is not much contribution, but better then just watching.) 3) A nice balance of complexity. This is not to everyones liking, but I enjoy the fact that every class has the same complexity, and they "only" differ in the strategy each class/role (it is a bit more specific then role - Warlocks and Rogues play differently.) It seems to give me the differentiation between classes I like, without giving me headaches of managing a full spellcaster or the blandness of Fighters. (And I used to play both types of characters.)4) No ability spamming.While you use the same powers in each combat, you can't repeat your "signature" moves all the time. Sure, in some way, this is a constraint for the player, but in other ways, it means that using the actual power has more meaning (use it when the time is right), and nobody gets bored (including me) by repeating the same stuff every round, and I don't have to slot Fireball 3 times or Magic Missile 5 times (2 normal, one by way of Rary's Mnemonic Enhancer)Of course, once encounter powers are gone, this effect is lessened. But I wouldn't want to "spool" off 10 encounter powers each round, either. This is a good compromise. (Of course I wouldn't mind a "recharge" mechanic, either)5) Think during the game, not at home.I am not sure if everyone sees this as a benefit, but I find that the decisions I make at home during character creation and advancement are not as critical as the decisions I make at the game table. In a way, that might be a negative - 4E means I can spend less time on my hobby when not playing it with my friends. But on the other hand, it frees me to do other, also interesting stuff. In this case, the fact that I am both a DM and a player might help me - I could always spend my free time creating or fleshing out adventures and NPCs. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />The big advantage for me as player though is: I can't make really bad decisions at character creation and advancement. That means that I don't have to sit through an entire game session with a bad choice I made at home. Of course, if I screw up in the game, I am still screwed - but that's something I expect and wouldn't want to make impossible by the system. (I, not the system, should be responsible for not screwing up during play. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />)</blockquote>

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