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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Zustiur" data-source="post: 4499682" data-attributes="member: 1544">I was still discussing feel. It feels (to me at least) as though 4E was written as a rule set, and the fluff was added later. Whereas all previous editions feel (again, to me) as though they were creating fluff first, and attaching rules to 'describe' the fluff. When rules become more important than story, it stops being DnD to me.True - but compare the length of descriptions .. actually that's pretty hard, because in earlier editions the fluff and the mechanic were intermingled. Whereas 4E limits itself to 1 or 2 sentences, which are detached from the mechanic. They're even in a different colour so that you can more easily ignore the section you're not looking for. I find myself thinking 'which mechanic do I want to apply' and ignoring the name of the mechanic, rather than thinking 'which spell do I want to cast?' and then checking the effect. It might be faster but it doesn't give me the same immersion.Exactly. Each mention of squares points to 'rules first, story later', and takes a little bit closer to board game/miniature game territory. Taking Warhammer 40,000 as an example I'm familiar with - You can play the game without ever reading the background, or you can read the background without ever playing the game. 4E is close to that same point where you can do one while ignoring the other, but earlier editions you could not, as it was all mixed together (to make a nicer cake if you will...)QFT.'5 foot step' is a reference to reality, '1 square' is a reference to rules alone. Yes the rule corresponds to the same thing, but you or I 'see' the grid first instead of seeing the (mental picture of the) dungeon first. Every single one of those moments takes me further away from the mental images/imagination, and closer to the board/grid. Individually, they don't make a difference, but en masse they're a problem.What I'm finding at the moment is that I'm happy to play 4E, so long as I think of it as 'advanced hero quest', instead of 'dungeons and dragons'. As soon as I try to put it in the DnD 'box' something in me rebels against it.Even the concept that 'everything you need to know is on your character sheet or power cards' lends itself to the Hero Quest feel - where you're handed a single card with all your stats and dice rolls on it, and you never think outside of that card.</blockquote>

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