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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
Is 4E retro?
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<blockquote data-quote="Majoru Oakheart" data-source="post: 4202849" data-attributes="member: 5143"><p>I think that in a lot of ways it IS retro. I've had that impression ever since I started reading stuff about it.</p><p></p><p>I think the real reason it is retro is because it really does focus on getting back to the "core gameplay" of D&D.</p><p></p><p>Back in the day, D&D was about going to dungeons, kicking in doors and beating up monsters. You accomplished this by working together: The wizard detected magic and had the powerful spells but would die easily, the fighter had the armor and the hitpoints and would protect the party, the rogue would find and disarm traps and search for secret doors and sneak around and get in backstabs, the cleric healed and increased the effectiveness of the party. It certainly felt a lot like a team working together to accomplish goals.</p><p></p><p>As much as I like 3e, I found it got away from that. No longer were characters attempting to work together, they were more often competing AGAINST each other. I find that players spend more time searching books to find that perfect feat or PrC that will get just a little more power for their character than they do actually playing the game.</p><p></p><p>And it is no longer about trying to be the best fighter you can be or the best cleric you can be, it instead becomes about how you can make the best CHARACTER. How can you make a character who doesn't need other party members to survive? Plus, the rules have multiplied to the point where there's an exception to every rule and you need to know them all to play.</p><p></p><p>At least, that's my experience.</p><p></p><p>With 4e, I feel that it really concentrates on making the experience cooperative, role focused, and easy to play again. That's truly where I feel the "retro" effect comes from. Players have to work together because they all have limitations that can't be overcome by their own class. There is more a focus on solving the problems of the adventure through creative use of skills and thinking things through. In 3e, the focus was on having the appropriate spell or class power to bypass whatever challenges you came across. It is also much more focused on simplicity. There's very little you need to remember in terms of rules in order to play. If a rule is needed, you'll likely have it written on your character somewhere.</p><p></p><p>It isn't retro in all ways. It still attempts to solve the problems of the older versions of D&D. Things like: making combat more interesting and more tactical, making the classes more balanced, making options in combat more balanced, making out of combat options more balanced, getting something interesting at every level, more character variety(without giving so much variety that it breaks the class roles), and so on.</p><p></p><p>I liken it to running a game of 1st Edition D&D where you can be rest assured that any character that people create will not overpower your campaign, any monster you use will not accidentally create a TPK, and you know which magic items to give out to avoid overpowering your campaign, while the PCs have more interesting options available to them.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Majoru Oakheart, post: 4202849, member: 5143"] I think that in a lot of ways it IS retro. I've had that impression ever since I started reading stuff about it. I think the real reason it is retro is because it really does focus on getting back to the "core gameplay" of D&D. Back in the day, D&D was about going to dungeons, kicking in doors and beating up monsters. You accomplished this by working together: The wizard detected magic and had the powerful spells but would die easily, the fighter had the armor and the hitpoints and would protect the party, the rogue would find and disarm traps and search for secret doors and sneak around and get in backstabs, the cleric healed and increased the effectiveness of the party. It certainly felt a lot like a team working together to accomplish goals. As much as I like 3e, I found it got away from that. No longer were characters attempting to work together, they were more often competing AGAINST each other. I find that players spend more time searching books to find that perfect feat or PrC that will get just a little more power for their character than they do actually playing the game. And it is no longer about trying to be the best fighter you can be or the best cleric you can be, it instead becomes about how you can make the best CHARACTER. How can you make a character who doesn't need other party members to survive? Plus, the rules have multiplied to the point where there's an exception to every rule and you need to know them all to play. At least, that's my experience. With 4e, I feel that it really concentrates on making the experience cooperative, role focused, and easy to play again. That's truly where I feel the "retro" effect comes from. Players have to work together because they all have limitations that can't be overcome by their own class. There is more a focus on solving the problems of the adventure through creative use of skills and thinking things through. In 3e, the focus was on having the appropriate spell or class power to bypass whatever challenges you came across. It is also much more focused on simplicity. There's very little you need to remember in terms of rules in order to play. If a rule is needed, you'll likely have it written on your character somewhere. It isn't retro in all ways. It still attempts to solve the problems of the older versions of D&D. Things like: making combat more interesting and more tactical, making the classes more balanced, making options in combat more balanced, making out of combat options more balanced, getting something interesting at every level, more character variety(without giving so much variety that it breaks the class roles), and so on. I liken it to running a game of 1st Edition D&D where you can be rest assured that any character that people create will not overpower your campaign, any monster you use will not accidentally create a TPK, and you know which magic items to give out to avoid overpowering your campaign, while the PCs have more interesting options available to them. [/QUOTE]
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