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<blockquote data-quote="Bishmon" data-source="post: 3819851" data-attributes="member: 56176">I'd imagine that people against save-or-dies, though, don't want any mechanism that can instantly kill a PC with the probability that save-or-dies do in 3E. They don't care if the mechanism is the aforementioned save-or-dies, or if it's powerful blasting spells, or crazy create-a-bottomless-pit-beneath-your-feet spells.It's not that I don't want save-or-dies because I just don't like the tone or flavor of those particular spells, I don't want them because by themselves they have such high lethality, a level of lethality I don't want to be commonplace in spells in my game. Whether that level is lethality is a result of save-or-dies or blasting spells doesn't matter.You seem to be saying that removing save-or-dies is pointless because there will still be other spells with mechanics that effectively do the same thing, kill a PC outright based on a not-very-forgiving percentage. I've yet to see, though, from you or WotC or anyone, that spells with mechanics resulting in that level of lethality will be in 4E. In fact, considering they're taking save-or-dies out, I'm led to believe that there won't be.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Bishmon, post: 3819851, member: 56176"] I'd imagine that people against save-or-dies, though, don't want any mechanism that can instantly kill a PC with the probability that save-or-dies do in 3E. They don't care if the mechanism is the aforementioned save-or-dies, or if it's powerful blasting spells, or crazy create-a-bottomless-pit-beneath-your-feet spells. It's not that I don't want save-or-dies because I just don't like the tone or flavor of those particular spells, I don't want them because by themselves they have such high lethality, a level of lethality I don't want to be commonplace in spells in my game. Whether that level is lethality is a result of save-or-dies or blasting spells doesn't matter. You seem to be saying that removing save-or-dies is pointless because there will still be other spells with mechanics that effectively do the same thing, kill a PC outright based on a not-very-forgiving percentage. I've yet to see, though, from you or WotC or anyone, that spells with mechanics resulting in that level of lethality will be in 4E. In fact, considering they're taking save-or-dies out, I'm led to believe that there won't be. [/QUOTE]

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