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<blockquote data-quote="FourthBear" data-source="post: 3821586" data-attributes="member: 55846">Now that did definitely occur to me, as I've seen this be a significant problem with high level spellcasting in 3.5e.&nbsp; Since the powers at high level tended to be &quot;Save or Lose&quot;, there was always a strong tendency to allow for high saves and spell resistance, to make a spell actually taking effect almost a freak occurrence.&nbsp; Frankly, I consider this to be two wrongs making something worse.&nbsp; In the case you've described, save or die is effectively nerfed as the chance of death is now simply a matter of rolling and praying it doesn't come up a 1.&nbsp; So now we've got the peculiar circumstance that save are die are intended to scare the pants off of PCs, but are now rarely used because they're so ineffective due to save mechanics and counterwards.&nbsp; In effect, this is what has happened in the campaigns I've seen.&nbsp; Characters quickly try to grab Death Ward or similar protection, or worse rely on resurrection magics at high level.&nbsp; By simply eliminating these Save or Lose effects, saves can be scaled such that failure can be a significant chance (and missing multiple such in an encounter likely means death), but they no longer need to lead to an instant &quot;You Lose&quot;.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="FourthBear, post: 3821586, member: 55846"] Now that did definitely occur to me, as I've seen this be a significant problem with high level spellcasting in 3.5e. Since the powers at high level tended to be "Save or Lose", there was always a strong tendency to allow for high saves and spell resistance, to make a spell actually taking effect almost a freak occurrence. Frankly, I consider this to be two wrongs making something worse. In the case you've described, save or die is effectively nerfed as the chance of death is now simply a matter of rolling and praying it doesn't come up a 1. So now we've got the peculiar circumstance that save are die are intended to scare the pants off of PCs, but are now rarely used because they're so ineffective due to save mechanics and counterwards. In effect, this is what has happened in the campaigns I've seen. Characters quickly try to grab Death Ward or similar protection, or worse rely on resurrection magics at high level. By simply eliminating these Save or Lose effects, saves can be scaled such that failure can be a significant chance (and missing multiple such in an encounter likely means death), but they no longer need to lead to an instant "You Lose". [/QUOTE]

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