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<blockquote data-quote="Jedi_Solo" data-source="post: 3824288" data-attributes="member: 40245">Actually that problem is more of the 'Massive Damage at level 27' thing and was intended as an example of how boring I think the SoD effects are.To me SoD are boring - that's the issue.&nbsp; Not only in effect but in what they may force the player to do (or not do as the case may be).&nbsp; I'm at the table to game&nbsp; Not sit there watch others game and do nothing else for the rest of the fight.My issue with SoD is that it can take you from full to dead in round one without getting to react.&nbsp; Yes, large enough damage totals can do that as well - I understand that.&nbsp; But there are so many different SoD effects out there that fights get to the point where it is just 'who rolls a 1 first'.Maybe outright immunities are a problem that cause this as well.&nbsp; Fire Damage?&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Nope, it's immune.Ice Damage?&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Immune.Acid?&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; No effect either.Sword damage?&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Not enough to get past it's DR.Holy?&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Try again.There are so many combinations that just have no effect that it's easier to force the DM (and the players) to just fail a saving throw.&nbsp; What's the point of giving the critter 900 hit points if the only thing that can hurt it is a 1 on a SoD?As a player, SoD is boring to me in both directions.&nbsp; There is no thrill in that single die roll.&nbsp; Saving with a single die roll has about as much thrill as opening that candy wrapper to see if I won 1 million dollars.Don't get me wrong - having it all come down to a single die roll can be fun.&nbsp; If i'm down to sing digit hp with no hope of healing and I need to land the sword blow to take out the wizard that is keeping some effect going that is keeping our cleric out of the fight so he can...That is cool.&nbsp; Everyone will be holding their breath to see if I hit the bad guy.&nbsp; That is drama.But that drama isn't coming from a single die roll.&nbsp; It may come down to a single die roll but more has caused that drama than just the one roll result.&nbsp; That drama has built up over the entire fight (maybe the entire session) by having spells cast and hp whittled away.&nbsp; It's come from the cleric getting seporated from the party; from the wizard taking the full force of the damage spell and the fighter having to mow his way through the mob of underlings.On the other hand SoD is a single die roll.&nbsp; That's it.&nbsp; No difference in how it affects the PC if it comes at the start of the fight or near the end.&nbsp; The difference comes in how it affects the player.&nbsp; If I fail a SoD on round one I may be sitting out the entire fight (yes, the cleric might raise me or something) but if I fail near the end the fight at least I got to do something other than watch TV (by myself) at a friend's house.My problem with SoD is that it is everywhere at higher levels.&nbsp; Do we really need both Wail of the Banshee and Power Word: Kill?&nbsp; Everyone casts them because at higher levels everything is immune to everything.&nbsp; Have death effects drain CON, have Flesh to Stone drain DEX.&nbsp; These will kill a PC/NPC/Critter over a few rounds.&nbsp; To me that will build up the drama and that is what I want to see.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Jedi_Solo, post: 3824288, member: 40245"] Actually that problem is more of the 'Massive Damage at level 27' thing and was intended as an example of how boring I think the SoD effects are. To me SoD are boring - that's the issue. Not only in effect but in what they may force the player to do (or not do as the case may be). I'm at the table to game Not sit there watch others game and do nothing else for the rest of the fight. My issue with SoD is that it can take you from full to dead in round one without getting to react. Yes, large enough damage totals can do that as well - I understand that. But there are so many different SoD effects out there that fights get to the point where it is just 'who rolls a 1 first'. Maybe outright immunities are a problem that cause this as well. Fire Damage? Nope, it's immune. Ice Damage? Immune. Acid? No effect either. Sword damage? Not enough to get past it's DR. Holy? Try again. There are so many combinations that just have no effect that it's easier to force the DM (and the players) to just fail a saving throw. What's the point of giving the critter 900 hit points if the only thing that can hurt it is a 1 on a SoD? As a player, SoD is boring to me in both directions. There is no thrill in that single die roll. Saving with a single die roll has about as much thrill as opening that candy wrapper to see if I won 1 million dollars. Don't get me wrong - having it all come down to a single die roll can be fun. If i'm down to sing digit hp with no hope of healing and I need to land the sword blow to take out the wizard that is keeping some effect going that is keeping our cleric out of the fight so he can... That is cool. Everyone will be holding their breath to see if I hit the bad guy. That is drama. But that drama isn't coming from a single die roll. It may come down to a single die roll but more has caused that drama than just the one roll result. That drama has built up over the entire fight (maybe the entire session) by having spells cast and hp whittled away. It's come from the cleric getting seporated from the party; from the wizard taking the full force of the damage spell and the fighter having to mow his way through the mob of underlings. On the other hand SoD is a single die roll. That's it. No difference in how it affects the PC if it comes at the start of the fight or near the end. The difference comes in how it affects the player. If I fail a SoD on round one I may be sitting out the entire fight (yes, the cleric might raise me or something) but if I fail near the end the fight at least I got to do something other than watch TV (by myself) at a friend's house. My problem with SoD is that it is everywhere at higher levels. Do we really need both Wail of the Banshee and Power Word: Kill? Everyone casts them because at higher levels everything is immune to everything. Have death effects drain CON, have Flesh to Stone drain DEX. These will kill a PC/NPC/Critter over a few rounds. To me that will build up the drama and that is what I want to see. [/QUOTE]

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