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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ShinHakkaider" data-source="post: 3824292" data-attributes="member: 9213">The Sword and the Sorcerer. Xusia the Sorcerer of the title has a particularly frak'd up save or die spell that he uses near the beginning of the movie that forcibly removes the heart and the intestines of the target. and that's after damn near hemmoraging the target to death. The witch who revives him at the beginning of the movie is the target of this spell and effectively fails her saving throw. Later on in the movie Xusia uses this effect against both the hero (Talon) and the villain (Cromwell) both must have made their saves because they got the hemorrhaging effect but not the loss of their intestines and heart. Also one of the only movies that come immediately to mind where a the main character dies suddenly and violently is in William Friedkin's To Live and Die in LA. Those who have seen this movie know exactly the part that I'm talking about. I'm also remembering having recently re-watched LA Confidential one of the leads in that movie dies pretty unexpectedly mid way through the movie. Some of the comments about not having PC's die in the save or die manner refer back to emulation of things in another medium. Films are scripted. Books are scripted. Those characters are controlled by an lone author most times, in the case of a screenplay multiple writers, but the result is the same. MOST of the time by the time that movie is in the can (barring re-writes and pick ups) the characters fates are predestined. RPG's are a different medium. And it's something considering the fact it's one of the reasons that alot of us play the game, that alot of people aren't talking into consideration. Things happen to these characters, sometimes bad things, sometimes really sudden and unavoidable bad things. I've lost many a character is the old AD&D days to save or die traps or spells. The character wasn't an accountant sitting in a office somewhere when all of a sudden a mind flayer jumps out of the broom closet, stuns him with a mind blast and then eats his brain. He's an adventurer, he was out there doing dangerous stuff that can sometimes kill you without warning. I also agree that these effects shouldnt be used often but removing them from the game just really kind of continues on the track of the (expletive deleted) of the game. Apparently that's just me though.</blockquote>

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