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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Geron Raveneye" data-source="post: 3839212" data-attributes="member: 2268">Hey, you were the one bringing that up. I compared save or die rolls to betting your evening's winnings on one die roll, and the thrill of battling such an opponent to the thrill a gambler gets from doing his bet. If you say nobody forces to gambler to place that bet (something a lot of gamblers and gambling addiction councelors will argue, by the way <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> ), I can only answer that nobody forces the player to bet with his character's live. And sorry, if the game includes one-roll save-or-die situations, and you know it, and you still play, then you ARE betting your character's life on those too. You play the game, you accept the rules, you place the bet. Bitching about the rules is optional if the bet is lost, like with any other game. Which doesn't mean the rule is bad to begin with, just that some people don't like risks with that kind of terminal results. Others like them. So who's right and who's wrong? What...enemies who are able to take a wizard with his (at 8th level, let's be a bit generous) 25 hit poits to -10 in one strike are very rare at CR and above? Let's look at the stone giant: CR 8, Greatclub +17/+12 (2d8+12), Power Attack. Standard line-up, nothing fancy. Since you were generous enough to grant that poor wizard a +5 bonus on his Fort save, I'll do the same for his AC and say he's got an AC of 15. Basically, that giant already hits with a 95% probability and causes an average of 21 points of damage. 5% for a threat x 95% for a confirmed crit make it a 4.8% chance of total overkill. Simply power-attacking for 5 points instead still mean a 90% probability to hit (Attack reduced to +12, a 3 or better is needed to hit) and raises the average damage to 25 points, which simply means the wizard keels over with -1 HP, dying. The chance for a crit is reduced to 4.5% but it'll just kill him even deader. And since that character is either alone, or the group is surprised by the attack, I don't really view the above as a lot different from a bodak's "surprise gaze" result. And if you can have bodaks as random surprise encounters, a stone giant is not too far fetched either. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> The whole thing looks different with an 8th level fighter..or with the inclusion of more "assumed" magic. Which is why I'm saying number niggling isn't really helpful, except maybe to remember the numbers of 3E. <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/laugh.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing    :lol:" data-shortname=":lol:" /> Yep...13th level is so darn common, right? Having a save-or-die spell doesn't say a thing about the power and reputation of the person able to wield it. 6th or 8th level characters are already run-off-the-mill standard, after all. I stand corrected, obviously. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f615.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":confused:" title="Confused    :confused:"  data-smilie="5"data-shortname=":confused:" /></blockquote>

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