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Is 4th edition getting soft? - edited for friendly content :)
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<blockquote data-quote="Geron Raveneye" data-source="post: 3839404" data-attributes="member: 2268"><p>From my point of view, you'd take one option away from me as DM, namely to create a monster that HAS the ability to kill at a glance. Those "other" threats are out there as well, all you'd do is take out one option from the pool.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Don't get me wrong now, but that's one of the reasons why I was asking for more details for that encounter beforehand. See, you didn't give me any informations about HD, or anything else really, about the monster either. What you said was...</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Hence, neither of the situations I described indicate that the monster was a "glass cannon" or a "melee monster". It simply has a death attack with a save DC of 20, that's about it.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The "small" amount of preparation includes collecting informations about the place the group plans to adventure in, correctly identify the creature's ability from all the rumors they heard, the cleric preparing the correct countermeasures (and/or the group procuring items that can help there), and guessing the right timing to cast it, since the 3.5 version of <em>Death Ward</em> only lasts 1 minute/level..incidentally, it should be "cast death ward, notice monster", since the other way around might already cost one character. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> And to me, that doesn't look like a "small amount" anymore either. It gives a bard the opportunity to shine with his bardic ability, it channels some resources into research and purchase of countermeasures, it creates opportunities to meet sources for more knowledge, or for potential sponsors for future adventures, it might even add another reason for the group to undertake the whole thing (e.g. a church official noticing them asking around for that special monster ability asking to hire them to liberate an old relic from that tomb and offering them something in exchange)</p><p>And again, the medium sized mook is your elaboration, not mine.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Well, that's the result I got while trying to shoehorn a save-or-die effect into a random encounter *shrugs* Something like that should be "easily survivable" without preparations by epic characters only after all. Context is important to monsters too, not just characters. An epic bard is still not the most impressive melee combatant compared to his fighter friend, but he shines like the sun in social encounters. Context makes a difference all the time.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yep...usually it's one dead character and a lot of survivers running the hell away from that unholy terror. <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/laugh.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing :lol:" data-shortname=":lol:" /> Or it's a squashed monster beneath the heel of a demi-god PC.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>So what if I simply take that juvenile blue dragon (CR 7) with his 8d8 (DC 20) lightning breath and replace that with a death effect (DC 20) instead? Doesn't so much look like a "glass cannon" monster anymore. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>And why should I sacrifice the ability as a DM to create monsters that actually ARE able to kill with a glance for something that is already in the game if I want it there? I'm not sure if it gets through, but I'm also arguing flavour here, not just "mechanical similarity".</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Geron Raveneye, post: 3839404, member: 2268"] From my point of view, you'd take one option away from me as DM, namely to create a monster that HAS the ability to kill at a glance. Those "other" threats are out there as well, all you'd do is take out one option from the pool. Don't get me wrong now, but that's one of the reasons why I was asking for more details for that encounter beforehand. See, you didn't give me any informations about HD, or anything else really, about the monster either. What you said was... Hence, neither of the situations I described indicate that the monster was a "glass cannon" or a "melee monster". It simply has a death attack with a save DC of 20, that's about it. The "small" amount of preparation includes collecting informations about the place the group plans to adventure in, correctly identify the creature's ability from all the rumors they heard, the cleric preparing the correct countermeasures (and/or the group procuring items that can help there), and guessing the right timing to cast it, since the 3.5 version of [i]Death Ward[/i] only lasts 1 minute/level..incidentally, it should be "cast death ward, notice monster", since the other way around might already cost one character. ;) And to me, that doesn't look like a "small amount" anymore either. It gives a bard the opportunity to shine with his bardic ability, it channels some resources into research and purchase of countermeasures, it creates opportunities to meet sources for more knowledge, or for potential sponsors for future adventures, it might even add another reason for the group to undertake the whole thing (e.g. a church official noticing them asking around for that special monster ability asking to hire them to liberate an old relic from that tomb and offering them something in exchange) And again, the medium sized mook is your elaboration, not mine. Well, that's the result I got while trying to shoehorn a save-or-die effect into a random encounter *shrugs* Something like that should be "easily survivable" without preparations by epic characters only after all. Context is important to monsters too, not just characters. An epic bard is still not the most impressive melee combatant compared to his fighter friend, but he shines like the sun in social encounters. Context makes a difference all the time. Yep...usually it's one dead character and a lot of survivers running the hell away from that unholy terror. :lol: Or it's a squashed monster beneath the heel of a demi-god PC. So what if I simply take that juvenile blue dragon (CR 7) with his 8d8 (DC 20) lightning breath and replace that with a death effect (DC 20) instead? Doesn't so much look like a "glass cannon" monster anymore. :) And why should I sacrifice the ability as a DM to create monsters that actually ARE able to kill with a glance for something that is already in the game if I want it there? I'm not sure if it gets through, but I'm also arguing flavour here, not just "mechanical similarity". [/QUOTE]
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