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<blockquote data-quote="Grog" data-source="post: 3839609" data-attributes="member: 6183">Making a save against a save-or-die doesn't net the character anything but the right to continue adventuring. And as for the frequency, change it to twenty, or whatever you like. It's still not how craps (or any gambling game that I'm aware of) is played.No, they don't. The players don't control the enemies they face or the abilities those enemies have. That's under the control of the DM, or if they're using a published adventure, the adventure writer.25 hit points is rather low for an 8th level wizard; with a 14 Con he could easily have around 40 or so with pretty average rolls. He could also have a +2 Con item for even more HP. But like I said, it's pretty telling that even in your very slanted example, a stone giant, which is built for high meele damage, only has a 4.75% chance of killing the wizard in one attack, compared to a 35% or higher chance for him to be killed with a save-or-die. (And it's also worth remembering that the giant has to get within ten feet of the wizard to have that chance, while save-or-dies generally work at range).Fine. Instead of &quot;common,&quot; say &quot;commonly encountered by high-level PCs.&quot; Doesn't change anything.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Grog, post: 3839609, member: 6183"] Making a save against a save-or-die doesn't net the character anything but the right to continue adventuring. And as for the frequency, change it to twenty, or whatever you like. It's still not how craps (or any gambling game that I'm aware of) is played. No, they don't. The players don't control the enemies they face or the abilities those enemies have. That's under the control of the DM, or if they're using a published adventure, the adventure writer. 25 hit points is rather low for an 8th level wizard; with a 14 Con he could easily have around 40 or so with pretty average rolls. He could also have a +2 Con item for even more HP. But like I said, it's pretty telling that even in your very slanted example, a stone giant, which is built for high meele damage, only has a 4.75% chance of killing the wizard in one attack, compared to a 35% or higher chance for him to be killed with a save-or-die. (And it's also worth remembering that the giant has to get within ten feet of the wizard to have that chance, while save-or-dies generally work at range). Fine. Instead of "common," say "commonly encountered by high-level PCs." Doesn't change anything. [/QUOTE]

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