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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Geron Raveneye" data-source="post: 3840930" data-attributes="member: 2268">Uhm...seeing as the last wizard I played ran around with a Con of 11 for all of his career, and did pretty okay with that...allow me to disagree. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> They simply kill the target? I mean, you can make it out to be stilling the heart, brain aneurism, whatever you prefer. Basically, they snuff out a character's life. Even if I hate to use that catchphrase, but "Hey, it's MAGIC" <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/laugh.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing    :lol:" data-shortname=":lol:" /> Erm...that would be the point where my players would be wondering why those hundreds of 9th level clerics haven't popped out of the woodwork before, while they were busy dismantling the easier levels of the evil cult's network.But tastes vary. Personally, I hate to simply "up the mook" just because my group managed to get into the two-digit level range. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> Depends on if Bob the Commoner can deal with the residual damage that follows in the wake of most successful Fort saves against such spells as Finger of Death (3d6 +1/caster level), Slay Living (3d6 +1/caster level), or Destruction (10d6). For folks like Bob, those save-or-die effects translate to die-or-die, in most cases. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> I don't know why it is generally viewed as more preferable to try and use one system for all and every different thing that can come up in a game with such a broad range of possibilities as D&D. To me, that is something that deserves the adjective "silly" just as much..and for once, I'm actually in agreement with the 4e designers, who already stated that they will use a slightly different (yet compatible) system for monster design. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> Why should the ability of deities, entities that are so far removed from mortal characters, work under the exact same rules? D&D showed that scaling the D20 system up into infinity breaks around the early epic levels, for example.Where we differ is also in the opinion of what actually constitutes "RAW use" of save-or-die effects. I disagree that at some point, opponents with SoD effects become commonplace, or even mooks/random encounters, and nothing in the RAW tells me that it HAS to be so either. As a DM, I control the frequency, the circumstances and the numbers of save-or-die effects in my game, because they are a tool for the DM to use as he sees fit in his campaign. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> But yeah, happy gaming in whatever style you prefer. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

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