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<blockquote data-quote="Mustrum_Ridcully" data-source="post: 3841162" data-attributes="member: 710">Save or Die not as a &quot;generic spell effect&quot;, but as a plot device seems okay with me. If there was a fair warning about it (probably not: &quot;Oh, and behind the next door, there will probably be a Medusa Paragon that turns you to stone, no save, forever&quot;, but &quot;The Labyrinth of Stones is commanded by the first Medusa of the world. A Demon Cult is trying to free her from her prison to destroy this world once and for all. Stop them *several adventures later* Just as you enter the room, the Demon Cultist Leader is beginning to unlock the last locks of the First Meduas prison. Stop him now, or prepared to literally end up as a monument of failure.&quot; (That's obviously the &quot;Epic Approach&quot; to Save or Die - exaggerated to emphasize the story)I think it only showed that the current system can't really be scaled beyond certain levels. The main problem was that the difference between a character focussing on some kind of check, save or roll and that of a unfocussed character became so high that the d20 could just not bridge the gap. If you keep some care to avoid this happening, you can extend the lifetime a lot. At some points, abilities shouldn't give &quot;pluses&quot; any more, they need just to give options. Though at high levels, you might end up with a Storyteller or Shadowrun System, except with a d20 instead of a d10 or d6 (at least if we're following the Starwars trend with adding rerolls as one type of benefit that doesn't just add modifiers). At least if you're not careful. And I guess at some point it's just no longer interesting to advance further. (What comes behind Epic? Maybe Gods? Okay, but what's beyond that?)</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Mustrum_Ridcully, post: 3841162, member: 710"] Save or Die not as a "generic spell effect", but as a plot device seems okay with me. If there was a fair warning about it (probably not: "Oh, and behind the next door, there will probably be a Medusa Paragon that turns you to stone, no save, forever", but "The Labyrinth of Stones is commanded by the first Medusa of the world. A Demon Cult is trying to free her from her prison to destroy this world once and for all. Stop them *several adventures later* Just as you enter the room, the Demon Cultist Leader is beginning to unlock the last locks of the First Meduas prison. Stop him now, or prepared to literally end up as a monument of failure." (That's obviously the "Epic Approach" to Save or Die - exaggerated to emphasize the story) I think it only showed that the current system can't really be scaled beyond certain levels. The main problem was that the difference between a character focussing on some kind of check, save or roll and that of a unfocussed character became so high that the d20 could just not bridge the gap. If you keep some care to avoid this happening, you can extend the lifetime a lot. At some points, abilities shouldn't give "pluses" any more, they need just to give options. Though at high levels, you might end up with a Storyteller or Shadowrun System, except with a d20 instead of a d10 or d6 (at least if we're following the Starwars trend with adding rerolls as one type of benefit that doesn't just add modifiers). At least if you're not careful. And I guess at some point it's just no longer interesting to advance further. (What comes behind Epic? Maybe Gods? Okay, but what's beyond that?) [/QUOTE]

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