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<blockquote data-quote="Lonely Tylenol" data-source="post: 3843661" data-attributes="member: 18549">I think the point is that there's two things going on.&nbsp; First is that in any game, if you die, your character gets replaced by another character of approximately equal power level.&nbsp; If you like, you could just erase the name and pencil in another, but keep the character more or less identical.&nbsp; After level 9, you don't even have to change the name.&nbsp; So save-or-die is irrelevant.&nbsp; The interesting thing isn't whether you die, it's what you do on the adventure.&nbsp; Second, lots of people put a lot of investment into their characters, develop them, and become attached to playing them.&nbsp; So having that all be wiped out by a save-or-die on round 1 is ridiculously arbitrary considering what their play goals are.&nbsp; For that style of play, save-or-die is unwanted.The point is, Mallus and Jhulae both get to the same conclusion--save-or-die is teh suck--from very different starting points.&nbsp; That probably indicates that save-or-die effects are not suitable for a wide variety of playing styles.&nbsp; In fact, I'd argue that they're only suitable for the corner case of &quot;I want the chance that my character will randomly drop dead due to circumstances beyond my control.&quot;&nbsp; But that's not a majority position.&nbsp; Not even a plurality, I think.&nbsp; And even that position breaks down at level 9 when save-or-die changes from a threat to an inconvenience.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Lonely Tylenol, post: 3843661, member: 18549"] I think the point is that there's two things going on. First is that in any game, if you die, your character gets replaced by another character of approximately equal power level. If you like, you could just erase the name and pencil in another, but keep the character more or less identical. After level 9, you don't even have to change the name. So save-or-die is irrelevant. The interesting thing isn't whether you die, it's what you do on the adventure. Second, lots of people put a lot of investment into their characters, develop them, and become attached to playing them. So having that all be wiped out by a save-or-die on round 1 is ridiculously arbitrary considering what their play goals are. For that style of play, save-or-die is unwanted. The point is, Mallus and Jhulae both get to the same conclusion--save-or-die is teh suck--from very different starting points. That probably indicates that save-or-die effects are not suitable for a wide variety of playing styles. In fact, I'd argue that they're only suitable for the corner case of "I want the chance that my character will randomly drop dead due to circumstances beyond my control." But that's not a majority position. Not even a plurality, I think. And even that position breaks down at level 9 when save-or-die changes from a threat to an inconvenience. [/QUOTE]

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