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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
Is 5e Basically Becoming Pathfinder 2e?
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<blockquote data-quote="pming" data-source="post: 7254163" data-attributes="member: 45197"><p>Hiya!</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Bottom line...well, yes. Kinda-sorta. </p><p></p><p>HOWEVER, I don't see it as being "my fault" entirely simply because if you go back to the day the PHB was released, I, and anyone else, could have showed up at virtually ANYONE'S game and know what to expect. Anything above and beyond what the PHB had was "extra" or "unique". However, the more and more choices that show up, the more and more they become ingrained in the collective as "normal 5e game stuff". When a person shows up to a game and suddenly is presented with none of the "additional" stuff (re: SA, books, UA, etc)...they tend to think "Oh, this game is going to suck. If I can't make a genasai Deep Walker Ranger with Feats, then what's the point?". Because 5e is training them to do the same stuff that 3.x did; <em>If you have an idea for a character...go get it from someone else.</em> IMNSHO, 5e should be training people to do what 5e's base premise was in the first place: <em>If it's not there...make it up!</em></p><p></p><p>That was what I was getting at. That more "official choices" doesn't, in my mind, <em>increase</em> the base premise of 5e's "create what you want for your own game and go for it". It does the opposite. It <em>decreases</em> that premise because players and DM's are now expected to be using "the same rules" for, say, an "underground ranger archtype"...even though they are COMPLETELY OPTIONAL! A DM may have created his/her own, specific to his/her world...but players who are familiar with the Deep Walker Ranger (or whatever it was called) are going to be confused, annoyed or even outright upset. Their "expectations of play" have been changed. All because there was an optional archtype that was written up by WotC and now 'everyone' who hears 'underground ranger' will assume this is what is used. The DM isn't "giving them a new archtype to play"...the DM is now "taking away the fun choices".</p><p></p><p>Hope that clears it up a bit. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>^_^</p><p></p><p>Paul L. Ming</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pming, post: 7254163, member: 45197"] Hiya! Bottom line...well, yes. Kinda-sorta. HOWEVER, I don't see it as being "my fault" entirely simply because if you go back to the day the PHB was released, I, and anyone else, could have showed up at virtually ANYONE'S game and know what to expect. Anything above and beyond what the PHB had was "extra" or "unique". However, the more and more choices that show up, the more and more they become ingrained in the collective as "normal 5e game stuff". When a person shows up to a game and suddenly is presented with none of the "additional" stuff (re: SA, books, UA, etc)...they tend to think "Oh, this game is going to suck. If I can't make a genasai Deep Walker Ranger with Feats, then what's the point?". Because 5e is training them to do the same stuff that 3.x did; [I]If you have an idea for a character...go get it from someone else.[/I] IMNSHO, 5e should be training people to do what 5e's base premise was in the first place: [I]If it's not there...make it up![/I] That was what I was getting at. That more "official choices" doesn't, in my mind, [I]increase[/I] the base premise of 5e's "create what you want for your own game and go for it". It does the opposite. It [I]decreases[/I] that premise because players and DM's are now expected to be using "the same rules" for, say, an "underground ranger archtype"...even though they are COMPLETELY OPTIONAL! A DM may have created his/her own, specific to his/her world...but players who are familiar with the Deep Walker Ranger (or whatever it was called) are going to be confused, annoyed or even outright upset. Their "expectations of play" have been changed. All because there was an optional archtype that was written up by WotC and now 'everyone' who hears 'underground ranger' will assume this is what is used. The DM isn't "giving them a new archtype to play"...the DM is now "taking away the fun choices". Hope that clears it up a bit. :) ^_^ Paul L. Ming [/QUOTE]
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