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<blockquote data-quote="tetrasodium" data-source="post: 7956992" data-attributes="member: 93670">.Going into system differences of this sort is relevant to the discussion <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin&nbsp; &nbsp; :D"&nbsp; data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" /> You are right that alice is not used to wine glasses in the face as opposed to getting stabbed with spears.&nbsp; In the middle of a battlefield, a wine glass would not be a significant thing your right... but in the context of alice sitting down to negotiate with a frenemy alice is also not used to trying to stand up from the negotiating table &amp; immediately begin gesticulating VSM components to fireball the other side in negotiations nor is she on a battlefield.&nbsp; In 3.5 alice would be casting defensively (possibly with combat caster) on the battlefield where she might otherwise get stabbed with a spear, but&nbsp; the 5e change of an easier save &amp; not needing to wait till the start of her next turn means that alice is always walking around with a loaded bazooka in a firing position even while having a discussion in a civilized environment that would preclude her from doing so &amp; now needs to be treated as such with all situations looking like either a battlefield or an execution ground wit<a href="https://tenor.com/view/bow-arrows-shoot-hit-gif-12968662" target="_blank">h this</a> readied at all times... that's just a disaster&nbsp; for world building and storytelling that encourages the players to treat everything like murderhobos or require anyone they might need to negotiate/socially interact with on not quite friendly&nbsp; terms to be so absurdly powerful that they are capable of acting as a solo encounter.This causes problems within 5e itself.&nbsp; For example.&nbsp; In 3.5 she could have gotten it off with something like quickened still silent spell&nbsp; at a much greater cost &amp; in 5e subtle spell does skip somatic or verbal but now she can literally stand in front of the bbeg &amp; not need any of that to hit him with fireball unless he has a readied action to hit her like a freight train or counterspells her.&nbsp; She only even needs subtle spell if she wants to avoid alerting people in the next room &amp; the gm needs to fight the system or gm fiat it&nbsp; away.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="tetrasodium, post: 7956992, member: 93670"] . Going into system differences of this sort is relevant to the discussion :D You are right that alice is not used to wine glasses in the face as opposed to getting stabbed with spears. In the middle of a battlefield, a wine glass would not be a significant thing your right... but in the context of alice sitting down to negotiate with a frenemy alice is also not used to trying to stand up from the negotiating table & immediately begin gesticulating VSM components to fireball the other side in negotiations [B]nor is she on a battlefield[/B]. In 3.5 alice would be casting defensively (possibly with combat caster) on the battlefield where she might otherwise get stabbed with a spear, but the 5e change of an easier save & not needing to wait till the start of her next turn means that alice is [I]always[/I] walking around with a loaded bazooka in a firing position even while having a discussion in a civilized environment that would preclude her from doing so & now needs to be treated as such with [I]all[/I] situations looking like either a battlefield or an execution ground wit[URL='https://tenor.com/view/bow-arrows-shoot-hit-gif-12968662']h this[/URL] readied at all times... that's just a disaster for world building and storytelling that encourages the players to treat everything like murderhobos or require anyone they might need to negotiate/socially interact with on not [I]quite[/I] friendly terms to be so absurdly powerful that they are capable of acting as a solo encounter. This causes problems within 5e itself. For example. In 3.5 she could have gotten it off with something like quickened still silent spell at a much greater cost & in 5e subtle spell does skip somatic [I]or [/I]verbal but now she can literally stand in front of the bbeg & not need any of that to hit him with fireball unless he has a readied action to hit her like a freight train or counterspells her. She only even needs subtle spell if she wants to avoid alerting people in the next room & the gm needs to fight the system or gm fiat it away. [/QUOTE]

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