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Is 5e "Easy Mode?"
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<blockquote data-quote="tetrasodium" data-source="post: 7957388" data-attributes="member: 93670"><p>That's 4 dc10 checks for concentration not one higher dc check. even if it was one attack for 20 damage it's still not even dc11 until 22 damage. You just admitted my point about how something needs to be cable of acting as a credible solo encounter in order to have any meaningful chance of interrupting with a readied action. Without opportunity attacks, the battlefield ether needs to look like the defense line at the superbowl or the party can just walk right past everything careful not to come within 5 feet & go beat down the archers who are not getting an AoO if they try to pop alice on the battlefield with their readied action. If the archers are capable of acting as a credible solo encounter... what the heck kind of crazy slog are you picturing?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>No mages do not have just "low hp". Mages have maxhp-1 plus an absorption shield of maxhp-1 & that absorbtion shield is fully recovered with even a single point of healing.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Remember when you talked about how alice would optimize her skills in 3.5 to have a 75% chance f making the defensive casting check? Unlike in 3.5 when there were a ton of casteriffic feats other than combat caster, 5e is pretty lacking in that array of selection. Warcaster or resilient con make that dc fairly trivial.</p><p></p><p>Without any meaningful hurdles from moving around the battlefield beyond maybe one AoO if they come within reach of an enemy the archers need to be much tougher or numerous to pose any challenge to the party and the GM is still expeted to not just focus fire on squishiest to crunchiest. I'm not sure what your point here is.</p><p></p><p></p><p>You really don't need to be very careful about auras/aoos/etc in 5e because they were practically removed from the game. Every container no matter how mundane was given the super awesome ablity to grab what you want without provoking an AoO of the magical handy haversack. you no longer provoke an AoO by moving from one threatened square into another threatened square so using the football analogy can slingshot right around the linebacker & not be hindered until you step away to tackle the quarterback as you are tackling him.</p><p></p><p>I'm not sure what this is an example of other than the fact that you felt safe chasing them down alone & splitting the party due to how forgiving 5e is to bad decisions like that. Also I'm not going to castigate you for the things you did wrong, I'm going to point out that you needed to go that far before reaching that "intense moment" & get that dramatic story. In past editions a GM could trigger that sort of intensity across the party with an encounter that does not require one player to do something that will be pretty unanimously agreed upon being a stupid decision if things fall on the wrong side of the razor's edge. Not only could they do that, they didn't need to bring a PC down to one freaking hit point to do it. Congrats on your experience, it's a shame that 5e is structured to require you to go that far before the GM can trigger such an experience. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f644.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":rolleyes:" title="Roll eyes :rolleyes:" data-smilie="11"data-shortname=":rolleyes:" /></p><p></p><p>changing spells to one minute cast time is a gigantic disruption to balance. how do you intend to alter spells to account for a ten round casting time?</p><p></p><p>You can houserule anything you want & it's a whole lot easier to houserule with fewer problems to apply something complex that exists in place of something els that exists. 5e DMs can not do that because the complex does not <em>exist</em>. You only need to compare the AoOs of past editions to 5e & look at the absurd flanking/facing section in the gm.</p><p>[spoiler="here's the 4e version"]</p><p>[ATTACH=full]120511[/ATTACH]</p><p>[ATTACH=full]120512[/ATTACH]</p><p>[ATTACH=full]120513[/ATTACH]</p><p>[/spoiler]</p><p>Most importantly is that those movement related AoOs there are supplemented by abilities that themselves provoke or grant opportunity attacks when certain conditions occur (such as using the ability in question for an easy example). You can't simply add it to 5e because the abilities are different and designed to a different standard so you need to muddle through an endless cascade of one off houserules and newly built homebrew systems to account for edge case after edge case. Applying a rule from one thing to another similar thing is entirely different than building a homebrew 6e. </p><p></p><p>However, you <em>can</em> strip that down to 5e's " trigger ranged attacks for retreating without disengaging or making a ranged attack in melee range" with less page space & problems to fix than 5e devotes to not providing tactical combat with flanking & facing rules. That is so true that in the is 5e the easiest version thread someone spent pages arguing that 4e worked the same as 5e until presented with the rules. Once presented with the rules they shrugged it off & admitted they had been ignoring them without even noticing.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You only need to look at all the bad faith or bad service half baked variant rules presenting themselves as solutions to a gap in 5e's design to see why "just fix it(and design homebrew 6e)" is an absurd claim to make when even wotc made choices in design that left them not bothering</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Your attempt at disimissing 5e's criticisms falls short and ignores both claims from wotc that they take this kinda thing into account as well as publishing history even within 5e alone.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="tetrasodium, post: 7957388, member: 93670"] That's 4 dc10 checks for concentration not one higher dc check. even if it was one attack for 20 damage it's still not even dc11 until 22 damage. You just admitted my point about how something needs to be cable of acting as a credible solo encounter in order to have any meaningful chance of interrupting with a readied action. Without opportunity attacks, the battlefield ether needs to look like the defense line at the superbowl or the party can just walk right past everything careful not to come within 5 feet & go beat down the archers who are not getting an AoO if they try to pop alice on the battlefield with their readied action. If the archers are capable of acting as a credible solo encounter... what the heck kind of crazy slog are you picturing? No mages do not have just "low hp". Mages have maxhp-1 plus an absorption shield of maxhp-1 & that absorbtion shield is fully recovered with even a single point of healing. Remember when you talked about how alice would optimize her skills in 3.5 to have a 75% chance f making the defensive casting check? Unlike in 3.5 when there were a ton of casteriffic feats other than combat caster, 5e is pretty lacking in that array of selection. Warcaster or resilient con make that dc fairly trivial. Without any meaningful hurdles from moving around the battlefield beyond maybe one AoO if they come within reach of an enemy the archers need to be much tougher or numerous to pose any challenge to the party and the GM is still expeted to not just focus fire on squishiest to crunchiest. I'm not sure what your point here is. You really don't need to be very careful about auras/aoos/etc in 5e because they were practically removed from the game. Every container no matter how mundane was given the super awesome ablity to grab what you want without provoking an AoO of the magical handy haversack. you no longer provoke an AoO by moving from one threatened square into another threatened square so using the football analogy can slingshot right around the linebacker & not be hindered until you step away to tackle the quarterback as you are tackling him. I'm not sure what this is an example of other than the fact that you felt safe chasing them down alone & splitting the party due to how forgiving 5e is to bad decisions like that. Also I'm not going to castigate you for the things you did wrong, I'm going to point out that you needed to go that far before reaching that "intense moment" & get that dramatic story. In past editions a GM could trigger that sort of intensity across the party with an encounter that does not require one player to do something that will be pretty unanimously agreed upon being a stupid decision if things fall on the wrong side of the razor's edge. Not only could they do that, they didn't need to bring a PC down to one freaking hit point to do it. Congrats on your experience, it's a shame that 5e is structured to require you to go that far before the GM can trigger such an experience. :rolleyes: changing spells to one minute cast time is a gigantic disruption to balance. how do you intend to alter spells to account for a ten round casting time? You can houserule anything you want & it's a whole lot easier to houserule with fewer problems to apply something complex that exists in place of something els that exists. 5e DMs can not do that because the complex does not [I]exist[/I]. You only need to compare the AoOs of past editions to 5e & look at the absurd flanking/facing section in the gm. [spoiler="here's the 4e version"] [ATTACH type="full" alt="1586114416904.png"]120511[/ATTACH] [ATTACH type="full" alt="1586114460261.png"]120512[/ATTACH] [ATTACH type="full"]120513[/ATTACH] [/spoiler] Most importantly is that those movement related AoOs there are supplemented by abilities that themselves provoke or grant opportunity attacks when certain conditions occur (such as using the ability in question for an easy example). You can't simply add it to 5e because the abilities are different and designed to a different standard so you need to muddle through an endless cascade of one off houserules and newly built homebrew systems to account for edge case after edge case. Applying a rule from one thing to another similar thing is entirely different than building a homebrew 6e. However, you [I]can[/I] strip that down to 5e's " trigger ranged attacks for retreating without disengaging or making a ranged attack in melee range" with less page space & problems to fix than 5e devotes to not providing tactical combat with flanking & facing rules. That is so true that in the is 5e the easiest version thread someone spent pages arguing that 4e worked the same as 5e until presented with the rules. Once presented with the rules they shrugged it off & admitted they had been ignoring them without even noticing. You only need to look at all the bad faith or bad service half baked variant rules presenting themselves as solutions to a gap in 5e's design to see why "just fix it(and design homebrew 6e)" is an absurd claim to make when even wotc made choices in design that left them not bothering Your attempt at disimissing 5e's criticisms falls short and ignores both claims from wotc that they take this kinda thing into account as well as publishing history even within 5e alone. [/QUOTE]
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