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Is 5e Heroic, or SUPER-heroic?
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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 8077860" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>If a "halfling dog jockey" is literally a halfling who rides a dog, then the answer for BW and Classic Traveller is yes. Wuthering Heights is aimed to be played in 19th century Western Europe as its setting, and so doesn't really do halflings.</p><p></p><p>I don't quite follow this. I don't "adapt" them. I <em>play</em> them.</p><p></p><p>This has no bearing on my post or [USER=99817]@chaochou[/USER]'s post. No one was arguing that games without rules for combat are popular. But all that proves is that many RPGers like combat.</p><p></p><p>There is a lot of evidence that D&D play is combat-oriented at many tables. Nearly every thread on these boards that discusses class balance is about combat ( [USER=82504]@Garthanos[/USER] is one notable exception, frequently starting or intervening in threads to talk about out-of-combat class balance). If you read the "How was your last session?" thread, you will see that reports of combat encounter predominate.</p><p></p><p>But the popularity of this aspect of D&D doesn't show that other games with less market popularity are more narrow. Or that there is some inherent difficulty in designing a RPG which has rules for resolving non-combat challenges and interactions. Last weekend I<a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/traveller-actual-play.674269/" target="_blank"> ran a session of Classic Traveller</a> for my daughter. There was one fight in that session, which took two rolls to resolve - an opposed check to see who got to make the first roll to hit, and then a successful roll to hit made by me for the NPC opposing my daughter's character. All the other checks made were for resolving interactions with NPCs (using the reaction roll and Admin skill systems), for making repairs to a broken vehicle (using the vehicle repairs system), for opening the exit from a domed city (an ad-hoc check built around the Jack-of-all-Trades skill), and a few raw stat checks (STR and INT) to resolve the consequences and immediate aftermath of a vehicular crash.</p><p></p><p>None of that stuff <em>needs</em> mechanics any less (or any more) than combat. The function of the mechanics is to come up with a different resolution framework from "GM decides". And of course "GM decides" is as fine a mechanic for resolving combat as for any other area of PC endeavour - in that session I used GM decides rather than the damage system to determine the outcome of the fight mentioned in the previous paragraph, given that it was a "friendly" fencing bout rather than a fight to the death.</p><p></p><p><em>Detail </em>has nothing to do with it. D&D is obsessive in the degree of detail it uses to resolve interpersonal combat - tracking positioning and interactions in six-second blocks and to at least a 5' resolution. It also tracks magical capability, weapon skills, and some aspects of personal prowess (eg personal strength and endurance) in great detail. In some of its versions (eg B/X, AD&D) D&D has been obsessive in the detail with which it treats doors and traps and architecture more generally. A RPG doesn't <em>have </em>to do these things.</p><p></p><p>The rules for Classic Traveller can be reproduced on fewer than 100 pages (I know, I've done it) - and this despite its overlap with D&D in some respects of concern for detail (combat rounds, weapon lists). The rules for Wuthering Heights can be reproduced on fewer than a dozen pages (again, I've done it, mixing bits of the French original into the less complete English version).</p><p></p><p>As [USER=99817]@chaochou[/USER] posted, the decision to have detailed rules for combat and few or no rules for anything else is a choice. Other choices in design are possible.</p><p></p><p>I linked to an actual play report in the post you quoted. I've linked to another in this post. I think I have more actual play (<em>not </em>"story hour") posts on these boards than any other poster.</p><p></p><p>No one is keeping it a secret from you how Classic Traveller or Burning Wheel or Wuthering Heights plays.</p></blockquote><p>[/QUOTE]</p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 8077860, member: 42582"] If a "halfling dog jockey" is literally a halfling who rides a dog, then the answer for BW and Classic Traveller is yes. Wuthering Heights is aimed to be played in 19th century Western Europe as its setting, and so doesn't really do halflings. I don't quite follow this. I don't "adapt" them. I [I]play[/I] them. This has no bearing on my post or [USER=99817]@chaochou[/USER]'s post. No one was arguing that games without rules for combat are popular. But all that proves is that many RPGers like combat. There is a lot of evidence that D&D play is combat-oriented at many tables. Nearly every thread on these boards that discusses class balance is about combat ( [USER=82504]@Garthanos[/USER] is one notable exception, frequently starting or intervening in threads to talk about out-of-combat class balance). If you read the "How was your last session?" thread, you will see that reports of combat encounter predominate. But the popularity of this aspect of D&D doesn't show that other games with less market popularity are more narrow. Or that there is some inherent difficulty in designing a RPG which has rules for resolving non-combat challenges and interactions. Last weekend I[URL='https://www.enworld.org/threads/traveller-actual-play.674269/'] ran a session of Classic Traveller[/URL] for my daughter. There was one fight in that session, which took two rolls to resolve - an opposed check to see who got to make the first roll to hit, and then a successful roll to hit made by me for the NPC opposing my daughter's character. All the other checks made were for resolving interactions with NPCs (using the reaction roll and Admin skill systems), for making repairs to a broken vehicle (using the vehicle repairs system), for opening the exit from a domed city (an ad-hoc check built around the Jack-of-all-Trades skill), and a few raw stat checks (STR and INT) to resolve the consequences and immediate aftermath of a vehicular crash. None of that stuff [I]needs[/I] mechanics any less (or any more) than combat. The function of the mechanics is to come up with a different resolution framework from "GM decides". And of course "GM decides" is as fine a mechanic for resolving combat as for any other area of PC endeavour - in that session I used GM decides rather than the damage system to determine the outcome of the fight mentioned in the previous paragraph, given that it was a "friendly" fencing bout rather than a fight to the death. [I]Detail [/I]has nothing to do with it. D&D is obsessive in the degree of detail it uses to resolve interpersonal combat - tracking positioning and interactions in six-second blocks and to at least a 5' resolution. It also tracks magical capability, weapon skills, and some aspects of personal prowess (eg personal strength and endurance) in great detail. In some of its versions (eg B/X, AD&D) D&D has been obsessive in the detail with which it treats doors and traps and architecture more generally. A RPG doesn't [I]have [/I]to do these things. The rules for Classic Traveller can be reproduced on fewer than 100 pages (I know, I've done it) - and this despite its overlap with D&D in some respects of concern for detail (combat rounds, weapon lists). The rules for Wuthering Heights can be reproduced on fewer than a dozen pages (again, I've done it, mixing bits of the French original into the less complete English version). As [USER=99817]@chaochou[/USER] posted, the decision to have detailed rules for combat and few or no rules for anything else is a choice. Other choices in design are possible. I linked to an actual play report in the post you quoted. I've linked to another in this post. I think I have more actual play ([I]not [/I]"story hour") posts on these boards than any other poster. No one is keeping it a secret from you how Classic Traveller or Burning Wheel or Wuthering Heights plays.[/QUOTE] [/QUOTE]
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