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<blockquote data-quote="tetrasodium" data-source="post: 8554755" data-attributes="member: 93670">It's complicated &amp; there was a lot of things that were involved in it.&nbsp; I'll mostly talk about 3.5 because ad&amp;d was too long ago to speak on more than vague recollections. <ul>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">Starting at 2 or 5 was not uncommon if the PCs were intended to start out a little bit seasoned (ie town guard not hero of $event type analog).&nbsp; Even if a group started with a couple levels they still felt much weaker out of the gate than in o5e level one.&nbsp; The important difference though is that there was the ability to start at those lower levels when there was a desire to explore that end of the scale or a need to point at it when a player brings backstories like <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoO2eI9IioE&amp;t=96s" target="_blank">this</a> to the table.</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">Games tended to run a little higher into the low/mid teens.&nbsp; Some of that was because of the lower levels in the last point still existing, but there was a lot of other factors like vancian casting making it so on any given adventuring day there were good odds that casters had a decent chunk of their spell slots devoted to situations that didn't come up but spells scaled by caster level rather than slot level &amp; there were a lot more spell slots available(5e slows the gain rate down at 3/7/9/11) so even the low level slots stayed powerful when they were used. </li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">the hit chance thing&nbsp; was a big part of why the higher levels fell apart though.&nbsp; Part of that is because it wasn't uncommon for a character to have 24/26++ in their prime stat&nbsp; for +6/+7 or much more to hit from that alongside the BaB gains&nbsp; A fighter gained 1 BaB per 1 level&nbsp; while something like a rogue gained 2 points of BaB across every 3 levels &amp; was more MAD so probably has a slightly lower bonus to hit on top of the BaB difference.&nbsp; At level 20 a rogue would have +15/+10/+5 tohit from BaB on their first second &amp; third attacks while a fighter or paladin would have +20/+15/+10/+5 on their 1st/2nd/3rd/4th attack before a point or three from stats further expanded the gap.&nbsp; You wound up with a situation where in order for the fighter to have a chance of missing the rogue could basically only hit on the most amazing rolls while a 1/3 BaB class like cleric wizard or whatever&nbsp; would be pretty much incapable of hitting with an attack roll against AC on anything but a 20.</li>
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[QUOTE="tetrasodium, post: 8554755, member: 93670"] It's complicated & there was a lot of things that were involved in it. I'll mostly talk about 3.5 because ad&d was too long ago to speak on more than vague recollections. [LIST] [*]Starting at 2 or 5 was not uncommon if the PCs were intended to start out a little bit seasoned (ie town guard not hero of $event type analog). Even if a group started with a couple levels they still felt much weaker out of the gate than in o5e level one. The important difference though is that there was the ability to start at those lower levels when there was a desire to explore that end of the scale or a need to point at it when a player brings backstories like [URL='https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoO2eI9IioE&t=96s']this[/URL] to the table. [*]Games tended to run a little higher into the low/mid teens. Some of that was because of the lower levels in the last point still existing, but there was a lot of other factors like vancian casting making it so on any given adventuring day there were good odds that casters had a decent chunk of their spell slots devoted to situations that didn't come up but spells scaled by caster level rather than slot level & there were a lot more spell slots available(5e slows the gain rate down at 3/7/9/11) so even the low level slots stayed powerful when they were used. [*]the hit chance thing was a big part of why the higher levels fell apart though. Part of that is because it wasn't uncommon for a character to have 24/26++ in their prime stat for +6/+7 or much more to hit from that alongside the BaB gains A fighter gained 1 BaB per 1 level while something like a rogue gained 2 points of BaB across every 3 levels & was more MAD so probably has a slightly lower bonus to hit on top of the BaB difference. At level 20 a rogue would have +15/+10/+5 tohit from BaB on their first second & third attacks while a fighter or paladin would have +20/+15/+10/+5 on their 1st/2nd/3rd/4th attack before a point or three from stats further expanded the gap. You wound up with a situation where in order for the fighter to have a [I]chance [/I]of missing the rogue could basically only hit on the most amazing rolls while a 1/3 BaB class like cleric wizard or whatever would be pretty much incapable of hitting with an attack roll against AC on anything but a 20. [/LIST] [/QUOTE]

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