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<blockquote data-quote="CleverNickName" data-source="post: 7922790" data-attributes="member: 50987">I don't buy the &quot;It depends on the DM&quot; argument.&nbsp; Let's look at the same situation in three different editions of the game.&nbsp; Your character is Gruff Strongjaw, a 3rd level human Fighter, and he was just bitten by a common viper.[SPOILER=Save Throws and Stuff]In B/X Rules:Gruff makes a save throw vs. poison, and for a 3rd level Fighter, the target is 12.&nbsp; If he fails the save throw (55% chance), he dies.&nbsp; So in the Basic/Expert rules, he has a 55% chance of immediate death.In 3.5E Rules:Gruff makes a Fortitude save.&nbsp; For a tiny viper the DC is 10, and for a 3rd level Fighter the Fort save is made at +3.&nbsp; If he fails the save throw (40% chance), he takes an additional 1d6 poison damage.&nbsp; Then he makes a second save throw, at the same DC.&nbsp; If he fails that save throw also (same 40% chance of failing), he takes another 1d6 poison damage.So under the 3rd Edition rules, he has a 40% chance of taking +1d6 damage, followed by another 40% chance of another 1d6 damage.In 5E Rules:Gruff makes a Constitution save.&nbsp; For a tiny viper the DC is 10, and for a 3rd level Fighter the Con bonus is +2.&nbsp; If he fails the save throw (40% chance) he takes +2d4 poison damage.&nbsp; Otherwise, he takes +1d4 poison damage.So with the 5th Edition rules, he takes +1d4 damage, and has a 40% chance of taking another +1d4 damage.[/SPOILER]I mean, sure, the DM could just not use poisonous snakes in his campaign and decree that the adventure takes place in Ireland.&nbsp; He could also say that poison isn't poisonous, fire isn't hot, and death isn't possible.&nbsp; And that's true in any edition.&nbsp; So I get what folks are trying to say.But if we're just examining the rules as-written and making comparisons?&nbsp; Some are definitely more challenging than others.&nbsp; Not just challenging in how deadly they are, but also challenging in their rules complexity and amount of math involved.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="CleverNickName, post: 7922790, member: 50987"] I don't buy the "It depends on the DM" argument. Let's look at the same situation in three different editions of the game. Your character is Gruff Strongjaw, a 3rd level human Fighter, and he was just bitten by a common viper. [SPOILER=Save Throws and Stuff] [B]In B/X Rules:[/B] Gruff makes a save throw vs. poison, and for a 3rd level Fighter, the target is 12. If he fails the save throw (55% chance), he dies. So in the Basic/Expert rules, he has a 55% chance of immediate death. [B]In 3.5E Rules:[/B] Gruff makes a Fortitude save. For a tiny viper the DC is 10, and for a 3rd level Fighter the Fort save is made at +3. If he fails the save throw (40% chance), he takes an additional 1d6 poison damage. Then he makes a second save throw, at the same DC. If he fails that save throw also (same 40% chance of failing), he takes another 1d6 poison damage. So under the 3rd Edition rules, he has a 40% chance of taking +1d6 damage, followed by another 40% chance of another 1d6 damage. [B]In 5E Rules:[/B] Gruff makes a Constitution save. For a tiny viper the DC is 10, and for a 3rd level Fighter the Con bonus is +2. If he fails the save throw (40% chance) he takes +2d4 poison damage. Otherwise, he takes +1d4 poison damage. So with the 5th Edition rules, he takes +1d4 damage, and has a 40% chance of taking another +1d4 damage.[/SPOILER] I mean, sure, the DM could just not use poisonous snakes in his campaign and decree that the adventure takes place in Ireland. He could also say that poison isn't poisonous, fire isn't hot, and death isn't possible. And that's true in any edition. So I get what folks are trying to say. But if we're just examining the rules as-written and making comparisons? Some are definitely more challenging than others. Not just challenging in how deadly they are, but also challenging in their rules complexity and amount of math involved. [/QUOTE]

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