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Message: <blockquote data-quote="tetrasodium" data-source="post: 7922817" data-attributes="member: 93670">Yes.  I've done things to make it more gritty like persistent death saves, healing kit dependency for hit dice, once even tried8hr short rests & week long long rests.  None succeeded & all had severe problems or were immediately  proven pointless.<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">dmg267 gritty rests (8hr short 7 day long) was a disaster.  On top of the need to find a balance between long & short rest classes you had the effect that magic items suddenly got back all of their charges on any long rest & could be spammed pretty heavily.  That part was a disaster, but there was also the fact that it screwed up pacing, made a lot of spells & abilities useless, and/or ran into tons of things still tied to day/night cycles like each day/night at $time</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Healers kit dependency (dg267)  between a paladin & divine soul sorcerer it just turned into burn every spell slot & take a long rest to get all spell slots back unless there was a doom clock 24/7.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Slow natural healing(dmg267) see the last point</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">combat isn't very dangerous & characters are never forced to consider "I should burn some spell slots to speed this up" unless it's a lethal combat.  Compare a Wight's life drain [spoiler="5e"] [*]Multiattack. The wight makes two longsword attacks or two longbow attacks. It can use its Life Drain in place of one longsword attack. Life Drain. Melee Weapon Attack: +4 to hit, reach 5 ft., one creature. Hit: 5 (1d6 + 2) necrotic damage. The target must succeed on a DC 13 Constitution saving throw or its hit point maximum is reduced by an amount equal to the damage taken. This reduction lasts until the target finishes a long rest.  The target dies if this effect reduces its hit point maximum to 0. A humanoid slain by this attack rises 24 hours later as a zombie under the wight's control, unless the humanoid is restored to life or its body is destroyed. The wight can have no more than twelve zombies under its control at one time. [*][/spoiler] to the same in 5e [spoiler="3.5"] [*]Create Spawn (Su) Any humanoid slain by a wight becomes a wight in 1d4 rounds. Spawn are under the command of the wight that created them and remain enslaved until its death. They do not possess any of the abilities they had in life. Energy Drain (Su) Living creatures hit by a wight’s slam attack gain one negative level. The DC is 14 for the Fortitude save to remove a negative level. The save DC is Charisma-based. For each such negative level bestowed, the wight gains 5 temporary hit points. [*]Negative Levels An affected opponent takes a –1 penalty on all <a href="https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Skill_Check" target="_blank">skill checks</a> and <a href="https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Ability_Check" target="_blank">ability checks</a>, <a href="https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Attack_Roll" target="_blank">attack rolls</a>, and <a href="https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Saving_Throw" target="_blank">saving throws</a>, and loses 5 <a href="https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Hit_Points" target="_blank">hit points</a> and one effective level or <a href="https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Hit_Dice" target="_blank">Hit Die</a> (whenever level is used in a die roll or calculation) for each negative level. A spellcaster loses one spell slot of the highest level of spells she can cast and (if applicable) one prepared spell of that level. If she has more than one spell at her highest level, she chooses which she loses. A psionic character loses access to one power per negative level from the highest level of power he can manifest; he also loses a number of <a href="https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Power_Points" target="_blank">power points</a> equal to the cost of that power. If two or more <a href="https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Powers" target="_blank">powers</a> fit these criteria, the manifester decides which one becomes inaccessible. This loss persists until the negative level is removed. Negative levels remain until 24 hours have passed or until they are removed with a spell, such as <a href="https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Restoration" target="_blank">restoration</a>. If a negative level is not removed before 24 hours have passed, the affected creature must attempt a <a href="https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Saving_Throw" target="_blank">Fortitude</a> save (<a href="https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:DC" target="_blank">DC</a> 10 + 1/2 draining creature’s racial <a href="https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Hit_Dice" target="_blank">HD</a> + draining creature’s <a href="https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Charisma" target="_blank">Cha</a> modifier; the exact <a href="https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:DC" target="_blank">DC</a> is given in the creature’s descriptive text). On a success, the negative level goes away with no harm to the creature. On a failure, the negative level goes away, but the creature’s level is also reduced by one. A separate <a href="https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Saving_Throw" target="_blank">saving throw</a> is required for each negative level. A character with negative levels at least equal to her current level, or drained below 1st level, is instantly slain. Depending on the creature that killed her, she may rise the next night as a monster of that kind. If not, she rises as a wight.[/spoiler] One of those is freaking scary at any level & a serious problem... The other needs to hit, fail a save, an take a long rest.. eventually.... conveniently that cures both the max hp lost from the energy drain and the missing hp.Past editions were loaded with creatures that were always scary  but the only time they are scary in 5e is when they have a save or die attack like beholders or are massively inappropriate for the party like an adult or ancient dragon vrs a party of level 2 PCs.</li> </ul></blockquote>

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