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<blockquote data-quote="tetrasodium" data-source="post: 7923755" data-attributes="member: 93670">First off, what exactly about the 5e wraith do you consider &quot;scary&quot;?[spoiler=&quot;3.5mm wraith&quot;][ATTACH=full]118573[/ATTACH]A critical part of that is incorporeal traits:[ATTACH=full]118589[/ATTACH][ATTACH=full]118590[/ATTACH]So not only does it ignore everyone's armor &amp; shield(very partial small value exceptions aside) to almost guarantee a hit, it is also going to ignore half the attacks that do hit or require spellslots to kill and those almost certain to hit attacks are going to be dealing a d6 of con damage fairly often.&nbsp; Cap it off with the fact that it can deal 1d6 con damage each hit. <a href="https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/restorationLesser.htm" target="_blank">lesser restoration</a> only recovered 1d4 points of stat damage, and you had the vancian/spontaneous once prepped differences in casting.Even at higher levels the wraith was dangerous because of all these reasons[/spoiler][spoiler=&quot;5e wraith&quot;][ATTACH=full]118591[/ATTACH][/spoiler]Yes you need multiple monsters to be a challenge, but the difference is that one has features that make it difficult &amp; frighteningly dangerous in ways that make the risk calculations for other monsters shift.&nbsp; Throwing some monsters with save or&nbsp; suck/save or lose abilities didn't trigger the same kind of rocket tag as things like a beholder's disintegrate ray, but it meant that you didn't need an army of them to crush the party under a zergrush.&nbsp;&nbsp; The same is true for monsters that had notable DR or outright immunity to damage not from a +N weapon, not $DamageType, weapons made from various materials, or whatever while in 5e there's effectively two damage types &quot;nonmagical bludgeoning piercing or slashing damage&quot; and what amounts to well... &quot;every cantrip, every spell, every magical weapon, &amp; level 6+ monk strikes or level 6+ moon druid wildshape.&quot;&nbsp; Regenerating monsters were dangerous because it was generally a nontrivial thing to halt regeneration unless you happened to have a melee weapon that had built in fire/acid/radiant(holy?) damage wile in 5e there are more classes that are almost certain to have one or more cantrips that deal&nbsp; those damage types.Exactly what about dropping a wraith into an encounter or the crawl along the way makes a wraith in 5e scary other than 4d8+3 necrotic damage?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="tetrasodium, post: 7923755, member: 93670"] First off, what exactly about the 5e wraith do you consider "scary"? [spoiler="3.5mm wraith"][ATTACH type="full" alt="1582203306534.png"]118573[/ATTACH] A critical part of that is incorporeal traits: [ATTACH type="full"]118589[/ATTACH] [ATTACH type="full"]118590[/ATTACH] So not only does it ignore everyone's armor & shield(very partial small value exceptions aside) to almost guarantee a hit, it is also going to ignore half the attacks that do hit or require spellslots to kill [I]and [/I]those almost certain to hit attacks are going to be dealing a d6 of con damage fairly often. Cap it off with the fact that it can deal 1d6 con damage [I]each[/I] hit. [URL='https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/restorationLesser.htm']lesser restoration[/URL] only recovered 1d4 points of stat damage, [I]and [/I]you had the vancian/spontaneous once prepped differences in casting. Even at higher levels the wraith was [I]dangerous[/I] because of all these reasons [/spoiler] [spoiler="5e wraith"] [ATTACH type="full"]118591[/ATTACH] [/spoiler] Yes you need multiple monsters to be a challenge, but the difference is that one has features that make it difficult & frighteningly dangerous in ways that make the risk calculations for other monsters shift. Throwing some monsters with save or suck/save or lose abilities didn't trigger the same kind of rocket tag as things like a beholder's disintegrate ray, but it meant that you didn't need an army of them to crush the party under a zergrush. The same is true for monsters that had notable DR or outright immunity to damage not from a +N weapon, not $DamageType, weapons made from various materials, or whatever while in 5e there's effectively two damage types "nonmagical bludgeoning piercing or slashing damage" and what amounts to well... "every cantrip, every spell, every magical weapon, & level 6+ monk strikes or level 6+ moon druid wildshape." Regenerating monsters were dangerous because it was generally a nontrivial thing to halt regeneration unless you happened to have a melee weapon that had built in fire/acid/radiant(holy?) damage wile in 5e there are more classes that are almost certain to have one or more cantrips that deal those damage types. Exactly what about dropping a wraith into an encounter or the crawl along the way makes a wraith in 5e scary other than 4d8+3 necrotic damage? [/QUOTE]

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