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<blockquote data-quote="tetrasodium" data-source="post: 7924222" data-attributes="member: 93670">No no no... The dragon breath was your example... You threw it out like it was a solution to the fact that everything between damage of current hp+1 &amp; death by massive damage of current hp+max HP as described on phb197.&nbsp; &nbsp; You seem to accept that it's trivial for a GM to be a jerk &amp; choose to make attacks on a downed player.&nbsp; so when you brought it up after quoting me saying &quot;Pointing out how someone died in your game to a save or die effect underscores rather than contradicts my point though since I've been saying those effects are the only thing that poke the fear buttons on the player's lizardbrains.&quot; just you bloviating or was there a relevant point that you'd like to make now?I'm not sure how you take away the fact that most of the damage in that black night neutronium golem analogy being a complaint about in combat healing given that nearly all of the damage in it was simply nullified entirely... were talking about 16d10 &amp; &amp; higher damage values vrs healing word (1d4+ability) &amp; a healing potion (2d4+2).&nbsp; The healing is utterly irrelevant to the fact that the downed pc is restored to fighting action with his or her null all damage beyond zero buff restored.&quot;Healing up&quot; after combat is not the problem, erasing the losses&nbsp; &amp; attrition so quickly &amp; easily causes them to be effortless&amp; results in those losses being trivial.An urban adventure is one example of the kinds of problems encountered... or how about just a lightning rail, airship, or explaining why there are so many monsters just standing around in these ruins.&nbsp; What about explaining why the bbeg doesn't send the rest of his army to slaughter the fools that just murdered their way through such a large outpost of well trained soldiers again.&nbsp; so on &amp; so forth.&nbsp; It works great for murderhobo vacation &amp; is a mess for other styles.&nbsp; Yes you can do things trying to work around the fact that murderhobo vactation is not your goal, but those things quickly become as transparent as the emperor's new clothes.You asked if I tried the &quot;gritty realism&quot; from dmg 267... <a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/is-5e-the-least-challenging-edition-of-d-d.670422/post-7922817" target="_blank">I already posted about that much earlier in the thread</a>, unfortunately while possibly well meaning it's anything but &amp; all of those rules fall far short of the mark while causing severe problems of their own or accomplishing nothing towards the goal.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="tetrasodium, post: 7924222, member: 93670"] No no no... The dragon breath was your example... You threw it out like it was a solution to the fact that everything between damage of current hp+1 & death by massive damage of current hp+max HP as described on phb197. You seem to accept that it's trivial for a GM to be a jerk & choose to make attacks on a downed player. so when you brought it up after quoting me saying [I]"Pointing out how someone died in your game to a save or die effect underscores rather than contradicts my point though since I've been saying those effects are the only thing that poke the fear buttons on the player's lizardbrains.[/I]" just you bloviating or was there a [U]relevant[/U] point that you'd like to make now? I'm not sure how you take away the fact that most of the damage in that black night neutronium golem analogy being a complaint about in combat healing given that nearly all of the damage in it was simply [I]nullified[/I] entirely... were talking about 16d10 & & higher damage values vrs healing word (1d4+ability) & a healing potion (2d4+2). The healing is utterly irrelevant to the fact that the downed pc is restored to fighting action with his or her null all damage beyond zero buff restored. "Healing up" after combat is not the problem, erasing the losses & attrition so quickly & easily causes them to be effortless& results in those losses being trivial. An urban adventure is one example of the kinds of problems encountered... or how about just a lightning rail, airship, or explaining why there are so many monsters just standing around in these ruins. What about explaining why the bbeg doesn't send the rest of his army to slaughter the fools that just murdered their way through such a large outpost of well trained soldiers [U][I]again[/I][/U]. so on & so forth. It works great for murderhobo vacation & is a mess for other styles. Yes you can do things trying to work around the fact that murderhobo vactation is not your goal, but those things quickly become as transparent as the emperor's new clothes. You asked if I tried the "gritty realism" from dmg 267... [URL='https://www.enworld.org/threads/is-5e-the-least-challenging-edition-of-d-d.670422/post-7922817']I already posted about that much earlier in the thread[/URL], unfortunately while possibly well meaning it's anything but & all of those rules fall far short of the mark while causing severe problems of their own or accomplishing nothing towards the goal. [/QUOTE]

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