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<blockquote data-quote="Oofta" data-source="post: 7925712" data-attributes="member: 6801845">I think some of this comes back to &quot;what is challenging&quot;.&nbsp; In my experience, after a certain level if you allow raise dead, death becomes a speed bump.&nbsp; &nbsp; On the other hand the 300 GP in diamonds for the components can be an obstacle for revivify in some campaigns.I'd rather challenge my players in a variety of ways and not have to worry about accidentally killing off a PC that has done everything right.&nbsp; For example I think it's more of a challenge to slowly be turned to stone from a medusa than a single roll.&nbsp; Tactics and counters can come into play more than just random luck.IMHO, having to haul around a dozen different weapons for whatever you might face was just annoying book-keeping and one I ignored in my home campaign in 3.5.&nbsp; Having to have a special McGuffin to take out the bad guy is fine every once in a while.Also, [USER=6987520]@dnd4vr[/USER], I was just using &quot;standard array&quot; as a shorthand.&nbsp; If people truly do 4d6 drop lowest, it averages out to about the same (it's actually 16, 14, 13, 12, 10, 9&nbsp; according to <a href="https://anydice.com/articles/4d6-drop-lowest/" target="_blank">this </a>analysis).&nbsp; Of course you don't have that 9.86% chance of getting an 18, then again you don't have the chance of really poor rolls.&nbsp; A lot of people use far more permissive systems or put a floor on min rolls along with mins on primary ability scores.&nbsp; In addition the base assumption is no feats, multi-classing or magic items.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Oofta, post: 7925712, member: 6801845"] I think some of this comes back to "what is challenging". In my experience, after a certain level if you allow raise dead, death becomes a speed bump. On the other hand the 300 GP in diamonds for the components can be an obstacle for revivify in some campaigns. I'd rather challenge my players in a variety of ways and not have to worry about accidentally killing off a PC that has done everything right. For example I think it's more of a challenge to slowly be turned to stone from a medusa than a single roll. Tactics and counters can come into play more than just random luck. IMHO, having to haul around a dozen different weapons for whatever you might face was just annoying book-keeping and one I ignored in my home campaign in 3.5. Having to have a special McGuffin to take out the bad guy is fine [I]every once in a while[/I]. Also, [USER=6987520]@dnd4vr[/USER], I was just using "standard array" as a shorthand. If people truly do 4d6 drop lowest, it averages out to about the same (it's actually 16, 14, 13, 12, 10, 9 according to [URL='https://anydice.com/articles/4d6-drop-lowest/']this [/URL]analysis). Of course you don't have that 9.86% chance of getting an 18, then again you don't have the chance of really poor rolls. A lot of people use far more permissive systems or put a floor on min rolls along with mins on primary ability scores. In addition the base assumption is no feats, multi-classing or magic items. [/QUOTE]

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