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<blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 7934872" data-attributes="member: 6801228">I agree with most of your post, but a few of your examples here a feel are a little overreaching. For example, I agree that a trap that if you fail the DM just says &quot;your character is dead&quot; is bad form. I disagree that the dragon is supposed to act like an idiot and die on the ground. I agree secretly infecting a player with a deadly egg that they have no reason to suspect is bad form. Doing it in a way that they suspect something is wrong is perfectly fine. Having an assassin kill them out of the blue for no reason? Bad form. Have an assassin poison and possibly kill them after they angered someone powerful enough to hire that assassin who threatened &quot;you'll never see it coming&quot;? Perfectly fine in my opinion. Though, I probably would do it in a way that isn't instant death, because that's boring. And I feel like that is the core issue I have with some of the ways you can kill players. A high level assassin poisons the bottle of wine that the party is served. They drink it and they all die at the table. That's a &quot;rocks fall&quot; scenario, the game is just over now. And the example of the Roc, I'm iffy about. The Roc would logical grab people, fly up, and throw them to their deaths. But, doing it specifically because you know the party can't defend against that tactic is... skeevy. Sort of like every superman villain pulling out a chunk of kryptonite. It's specifically targeting a weak point on the meta level, not the game level and that just feels bad to me. But if the party charges an orc band across a rope bridge, and the orcs just want to kill the party? Yeah, they are cutting that bridge. Might take an extra turn instead of doing it all at once, but they aren't going to let the players across to fight them fair and square, they are going to act intelligently to win.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Chaosmancer, post: 7934872, member: 6801228"] I agree with most of your post, but a few of your examples here a feel are a little overreaching. For example, I agree that a trap that if you fail the DM just says "your character is dead" is bad form. I disagree that the dragon is supposed to act like an idiot and die on the ground. I agree secretly infecting a player with a deadly egg that they have no reason to suspect is bad form. Doing it in a way that they suspect something is wrong is perfectly fine. Having an assassin kill them out of the blue for no reason? Bad form. Have an assassin poison and possibly kill them after they angered someone powerful enough to hire that assassin who threatened "you'll never see it coming"? Perfectly fine in my opinion. Though, I probably would do it in a way that isn't instant death, because that's boring. And I feel like that is the core issue I have with some of the ways you can kill players. A high level assassin poisons the bottle of wine that the party is served. They drink it and they all die at the table. That's a "rocks fall" scenario, the game is just over now. And the example of the Roc, I'm iffy about. The Roc would logical grab people, fly up, and throw them to their deaths. But, doing it specifically because you know the party can't defend against that tactic is... skeevy. Sort of like every superman villain pulling out a chunk of kryptonite. It's specifically targeting a weak point on the meta level, not the game level and that just feels bad to me. But if the party charges an orc band across a rope bridge, and the orcs just want to kill the party? Yeah, they are cutting that bridge. Might take an extra turn instead of doing it all at once, but they aren't going to let the players across to fight them fair and square, they are going to act intelligently to win. [/QUOTE]

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