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<blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 8305912" data-attributes="member: 6696971">I'm not sure what you mean by the implication here?&nbsp; Do you mean things other people are saying or things I'm saying?If you're soliciting my thoughts, I've posted them above quite a bit (on both the 5e &quot;rising tide lifts all boats&quot; hypothesis and others as it pertains to indie games and 4e's relationship design-wise), but I'll throw a pithy recap here.4e's relationship to indie game design is pretty clear (and its something that was clear way back when and I spoke about it a lot 10+ years ago):* Ethos-wise, &quot;say yes or roll the dice&quot; + &quot;at every moment, drive play toward conflict&quot; from Dogs is basically 4e 101 and &quot;cut to the action&quot; that you see all over indie games (and Blades) deeply informs the game + how friendly the game is to Story Now/Play to Find Out (and alternatively, how relatively difficult it is for the GMs to exert Force).* Design-wise, subjective DCs + keyword tech + the sort of player-authored Kicker approach of Quests + the table-facing system architecture + the narrow/focused premise + Skill Challenges as closed scene resolution + Fail Forward + Change the Situation + Success With Complications...all this stuff is pervasive in indie design (from Dogs in the Vineyard, to Fate, to Cortex+, to Mouse Guard, to Apocalypse World, to Blades).&nbsp; Not to mention the tight, focused, integrated design of the system. As far as 5e's influence goes, the zeitgeist of &quot;making being a nerd cool&quot; (celebrity culture embracing gaming and the streaming aspect of play) plays a huge hand in the proliferation of nerd culture broadly and the courageous creativity of sticking your neck out and designing games specifically.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Manbearcat, post: 8305912, member: 6696971"] I'm not sure what you mean by the implication here? Do you mean things other people are saying or things I'm saying? If you're soliciting my thoughts, I've posted them above quite a bit (on both the 5e "rising tide lifts all boats" hypothesis and others as it pertains to indie games and 4e's relationship design-wise), but I'll throw a pithy recap here. 4e's relationship to indie game design is pretty clear (and its something that was clear way back when and I spoke about it a lot 10+ years ago): * Ethos-wise, "say yes or roll the dice" + "at every moment, drive play toward conflict" from Dogs is basically 4e 101 and "cut to the action" that you see all over indie games (and Blades) deeply informs the game + how friendly the game is to Story Now/Play to Find Out (and alternatively, how relatively difficult it is for the GMs to exert Force). * Design-wise, subjective DCs + keyword tech + the sort of player-authored Kicker approach of Quests + the table-facing system architecture + the narrow/focused premise + Skill Challenges as closed scene resolution + Fail Forward + Change the Situation + Success With Complications...all this stuff is pervasive in indie design (from Dogs in the Vineyard, to Fate, to Cortex+, to Mouse Guard, to Apocalypse World, to Blades). Not to mention the tight, focused, integrated design of the system. As far as 5e's influence goes, the zeitgeist of "making being a nerd cool" (celebrity culture embracing gaming and the streaming aspect of play) plays a huge hand in the proliferation of nerd culture broadly and the courageous creativity of sticking your neck out and designing games specifically. [/QUOTE]

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