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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 8306859" data-attributes="member: 6696971">My take on that one is a bit different.  Sort of a collection of all of the above:* The playtest surveys 100 % funneled an accretion of responses toward "tradition and nostalgia" (in both design and in tropes).  It did this via (a) the actual vessel of the funneling itself (the questions/prospective answers themselves and the surveys' "evolution" as time marched on), (b) and via the (not insignificant...I know probably 50 people who stopped responding early on) disenfranchisement of anyone either (i) looking for alternative design/focus or (ii) who weren't keen on aspects of the "tradition and nostalgia" they were funneling toward in their surveys and design (including the OSR elements they were affiliating with).So...yeah, they absolutely could cynically say "x outrageous majority of respondents LOVED our tradition and nostalgia approach!"  That is what happens when you put your thumb on the scale and disenfranchise people who disagree to the point they they exit stage left!* The reality is, WotC clearly wanted to do all of the below:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Court the OSR</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Seduce 3.x and PF players back into the fold</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Make a DIY-demanding, table heterogeneity producing, free-wheeling BIG GM storytelling game with some skilled play that they could move AP units with and expand market by catering to the vast expanse of casual gamers who just wanted a less demanding experience that entails interacting with a cool metaplot and beloved setting + fight bad guys + engage in theatrical performative stuff at your discretion + get a Power Fantasy fix.</li> </ul>Placate the old and expand into the casual market.* However, at the same time, Marvel movies made nerd-dom cool + 5e D&D pulled in celebrities and a lot of the virtual tabletop tools + voyeur culture streaming avenues came online simultaneously.  Some of this they absolutely lucked into.  But there can be no doubt that this was certainly part of "the business plan."[HR][/HR]The bottom line?  The net gain?  Whether clumsy or cynical or luck or Ozymandias mustachio-twirling brilliance (its pretty much all of that in reality), a lot of things came together (including outside forces that had nothing to do with WotC or D&D or TTRPG culture) such that IT WORKED. Yeah, WotC and 5e D&D disenfranchised people like me.  But the number of people that it enfranchised or re-enfranchised?  Staggering.  And its worked in concert with other media to make nerd culture mainstream and to make nerd culture more hospitable (it certainly still has a way to go) to beleaguered, disenfranchised groups.I only run the game when I'm forced to run it (about once every 6 weeks).  But I have to give its due for the trajectory of the cultural space (including inclusivity and creativity and progressive design) that we're presently occupying.</blockquote>

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