Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Lonely Tylenol" data-source="post: 2491566" data-attributes="member: 18549">What, in combat?  Taking a round to dig out the rope, attracting attention from other combatants, and not having rope use as a class skill, meaning chances are probably about even that he'll just slip the bonds with a standard action when he wakes up?  In a life-or-death situation, you simply do not stop to tie up someone who might momentarily wake up and stab you.  That's ridiculous.  Again, maybe if all his buddies are already dead.--edit: Checking the Use Rope entry, tying up someone takes one minute, so if he's asleep for one minute, you simply cannot tie him up before he wakes.So why are we bringing modern ethics into this discussion elsewhere then?  Besides, there is no reason why one would assume that the gods would intervene to change the outcome of a staged "trial by combat" if they hadn't intervened in the fight proper?  Why not just say that the gods ordained that the bandit would fail his Will save vs. sleep and be done with it.  It's an equivalently compelling rationalization.You're not killing him because he's helpless.  You're killing him because he's evil, or for self-defense, or some other reason why adventurers kill bad guys.  His being helpless only makes it easier (and adds an imperative to be quick about it before the spell wears off.In the given example the character was still in the "heat of combat" and the downed foe was not a prisoner, but a momentarily stalled threat to the wizard's life.  The only difference between phantasmal killer and sleep is that sleep, being a lower level spell, requires a follow-up full-round action to cash out the "save-or-die" effect that both provide, allowing another enemy the opportunity to foil the lower-level spell.At the beginning of the combat, both parties set out to kill the other.  At the end of combat, one group lay dead.  That's combat for you, and an illustration of why being a bandit is a poor choice of profession, especially in a medieval fantasy world.I'm still waiting for someone to explain why you can't CdG an opponent who falls to a spell, but you can allow opponents downed by violence (now "prisoners," by your logic) to bleed to death until they hit -10 HP.</blockquote>

Verification