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<blockquote data-quote="Helldritch" data-source="post: 6909837" data-attributes="member: 6855114">I really don't understand your obsession with shield doing damage.They might do some minor concussion dmg. You won't have enough momentum with your shield to do long term damage as a club would.You will destabilize, trip and even daze but the hurt won't be permanent.Using a shield like you want it to be is simply less effective. Using the edge of the shield might be doable against a neophyte combatant, but against even the lowliest hobgoblin, town guard or soldier, you should create an opening that should give an advantage to your opponent as you open yourself. At least that what it is happening in real life (ever went the arena in a medieval ground festival? I did.)Yep, you would do damage doing what you describe. But not even as much as a club, especialy against an armored opponent. And any opponent worth its salt would see you comming a mile away and would prepare for his counter attack as you open yourself to be hit. A real bash, used as it should be, will push the opponent and even trip him. Shield master is one of the few feats that really got it right from what happens in real life. Try as you may, you won't convince me that your position is logical. But then again, your table your rules.And please don't be mistaken. I really appreciate your point of views and your comments. You're articulate and you express your views with passion. Kudo on that.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Helldritch, post: 6909837, member: 6855114"] I really don't understand your obsession with shield doing damage. They might do some minor concussion dmg. You won't have enough momentum with your shield to do long term damage as a club would. You will destabilize, trip and even daze but the hurt won't be permanent. Using a shield like you want it to be is simply less effective. Using the edge of the shield might be doable against a neophyte combatant, but against even the lowliest hobgoblin, town guard or soldier, you should create an opening that should give an advantage to your opponent as you open yourself. At least that what it is happening in real life (ever went the arena in a medieval ground festival? I did.) Yep, you would do damage doing what you describe. But not even as much as a club, especialy against an armored opponent. And any opponent worth its salt would see you comming a mile away and would prepare for his counter attack as you open yourself to be hit. A real bash, used as it should be, will push the opponent and even trip him. Shield master is one of the few feats that really got it right from what happens in real life. Try as you may, you won't convince me that your position is logical. But then again, your table your rules. And please don't be mistaken. I really appreciate your point of views and your comments. You're articulate and you express your views with passion. Kudo on that. [/QUOTE]

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