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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 784181" data-attributes="member: 4937">I voted that it was a fine motivation, but not automatically good.&nbsp; But, I must confess - I'm just guessing.&nbsp; I do not actually know the answer.I do know that this is a discussion not best carried out in English (and its even worse in French).English does not make distinctions between love, so it ends up grouping very disimilar things together.&nbsp;&nbsp; I can say, &quot;I love my wife.&quot;, &quot;I love pizza.&quot;, and &quot;I love my country.&quot; and I mean all sorts of different things.When I say, &quot;I love pizza.&quot; or &quot;I love this game.&quot;, I do not actually mean that I love these things.&nbsp; I mean, &quot;This thing makes me feel good.&quot;&nbsp;&nbsp; But I certainly do not empathize with the pizza, nor am I likely to go out and die for the love of a good pizza.&nbsp;&nbsp; I don't really care about the pizza that much.&nbsp; Now, it is possible that something might make me feel so good that I would go out and die for 'the love' of that something.&nbsp;&nbsp; But, I don't think that that is really love, though I suspect that most people can't tell the difference and maybe some people aren't capable of much more than that.&nbsp;&nbsp; This is something like 'the love of heroin', in that it doesn't seem all that healthy to me.It might be possible that that something that makes me feel good and which is valuable to me is a person or persons, and this might be closer to love and might look alot like love.&nbsp; But I think in the test it wouldn't act very much like love at all.&nbsp; Instead, I think it will end up in a jealous rage, or otherwise groping to get back that loved person under your control.&nbsp;&nbsp; Still, at least here there is an object which can receive love.Then there is love which people tend to use to mean 'strongly like a person'.&nbsp;&nbsp; This is a whole lot like love, but it is of the more limited sort.&nbsp; Maybe it is love.&nbsp;&nbsp; I don't know.&nbsp;&nbsp; But I think it is more like mutual conveinence or alliance:&nbsp; &quot;Heh, lets do our best to shoulder each other burden's, at least as long as we are going in the same direction and your burden is about as heavy as mine.&quot;&nbsp; It is 'love' that is predicated on recipocation of the same.&nbsp;&nbsp; A contractual love.&nbsp; It is a 'good' thing, but it seems to me that it isn't that much of a love if you only love people that love you back.Then there is love.&nbsp;&nbsp; And I don't even know that it exists, but I'd like to say that when I say &quot;I love my wife.&quot;, I really mean it.&nbsp;&nbsp; Love all the way.&nbsp; Love no matter what.&nbsp; Love even if it means letting her go and breaking my heart, if that is what is best for her.&nbsp; Love meaning, &quot;I'm taking your bullet.&quot;&nbsp;&nbsp; Love meaning, &quot;Even if you treat me bad, I'm still going to repay you with kindness.&quot;&nbsp; Some people say that is unhealthy.&nbsp; I suppose it can be if you aren't really helping anyone.But I'm not sure its ever evil.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 784181, member: 4937"] I voted that it was a fine motivation, but not automatically good. But, I must confess - I'm just guessing. I do not actually know the answer. I do know that this is a discussion not best carried out in English (and its even worse in French). English does not make distinctions between love, so it ends up grouping very disimilar things together. I can say, "I love my wife.", "I love pizza.", and "I love my country." and I mean all sorts of different things. When I say, "I love pizza." or "I love this game.", I do not actually mean that I love these things. I mean, "This thing makes me feel good." But I certainly do not empathize with the pizza, nor am I likely to go out and die for the love of a good pizza. I don't really care about the pizza that much. Now, it is possible that something might make me feel so good that I would go out and die for 'the love' of that something. But, I don't think that that is really love, though I suspect that most people can't tell the difference and maybe some people aren't capable of much more than that. This is something like 'the love of heroin', in that it doesn't seem all that healthy to me. It might be possible that that something that makes me feel good and which is valuable to me is a person or persons, and this might be closer to love and might look alot like love. But I think in the test it wouldn't act very much like love at all. Instead, I think it will end up in a jealous rage, or otherwise groping to get back that loved person under your control. Still, at least here there is an object which can receive love. Then there is love which people tend to use to mean 'strongly like a person'. This is a whole lot like love, but it is of the more limited sort. Maybe it is love. I don't know. But I think it is more like mutual conveinence or alliance: "Heh, lets do our best to shoulder each other burden's, at least as long as we are going in the same direction and your burden is about as heavy as mine." It is 'love' that is predicated on recipocation of the same. A contractual love. It is a 'good' thing, but it seems to me that it isn't that much of a love if you only love people that love you back. Then there is love. And I don't even know that it exists, but I'd like to say that when I say "I love my wife.", I really mean it. Love all the way. Love no matter what. Love even if it means letting her go and breaking my heart, if that is what is best for her. Love meaning, "I'm taking your bullet." Love meaning, "Even if you treat me bad, I'm still going to repay you with kindness." Some people say that is unhealthy. I suppose it can be if you aren't really helping anyone. But I'm not sure its ever evil. [/QUOTE]

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