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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Imaro" data-source="post: 6316044" data-attributes="member: 48965">There is nothing literally self-contradictory in what I posted, I think you need to re-read exactly what I wrote.You do realize that these objections are not interdependent... right?  One, two or all 3 could happen at different times during a campaign or even a single game and there is no contradiction.   So yes, I do honestly believe all of these things could be objections to your suggested way of dealing with an oath breaking paladin character/player... and no, I really don't need to decide on believing only one, two or none could be the result.  I find it funny that you start out claiming it's no different from any decision any other DM makes... but then list out "best practices" for it.  Why wouldn't death before dishonor be the motto for some neutral and even some good religions?   The world of D&D is violent, why would an oath-breaker be accorded respect or approached in a peaceful manner... especially one who regularly dispenses and deals in violence?  Will forcing the other PC's into a situation where they have to decide to back their friend and risk possible death or dessert him (due to no actions of their own)... and then we have to play out totally different games where they do whatever it is they are doing... but I also have to play out him being brought to justice make for a better game?In other words I don't think it's anywhere as clear cut as you are painting it to be with the "DM fiat whatever is best for the campaign" line...It's about the way in which it is done... how do you decide what is or isn't an appropriate force for the PC's god or affiliated order to send?  It's about it being a head-ache for the DM and other players when really it could easily be decided and kept centered on the particular PC without this extra load on the Dm and other players by his personal loss of power.Where did I say it was unfairly harsh?  Perhaps you need to re-read what I actually posted... Now I am saying it is unfairly wishy-washy, an unfair load on the DM and an unfair load on the other players in the game... so I guess that could be interpreted as "unfairly harsh" on everyone else or on the group...See I don't see it as more interesting for anyone but the player as it takes spotlight time away from anyone who isn't involved in the game to interact extensively with the paladin's order.  I also don't think it has anything to do with a clumsy or clueless DM... it will affect other party members simply because they are travelling with, comrades of and perhaps even friends of the paladin.  I fail to see why this would impact the campaign in a way that is any more meaningful than a paladin charged with a quest from his deity or the leader of his order that must be completed in order to regain his divinity?  the quest seems to have a much more personal impact and larger resonance with the actual myths (i.e. the questing knight, quests of redemption, etc.)</blockquote>

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