Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Is Anyone Unhappy About Non-LG Paladins?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Greg K" data-source="post: 6322971" data-attributes="member: 5038"><p>Universally, less straight forward and obvious, yes, because it depends on culture and source. That does not mean, that one cannot choose sources for influence. Greek and Roman Mythology are often about obedience and respect for the gods. The exact punishments might not be known by the offender, but there is going to be punishment. Examples of a priest or priestess violating oaths of celibacy is killed or turned into a monster (in the latter case, the punishment is for being raped in the deity's temple by another deity). Other examples of punishments (not necessarily of priests or priestesses)</p><p></p><p>A guy was turned into a female by Hera for striking two mating snakes and later became her priestess . Years later he is changed back by seeing two snakes mating and leaving them alone. Since he had experience as both a man and a woman, he was asked to settle an argument between Hera and Zeus as to whether men or women get more pleasure during sex. The man takes Zeus's side and an enraged Hera curses the man with blindness and not even Zeus can break the curse.</p><p></p><p>Athena challenges a boastful Arachne to a weaving contest and becomes enraged when Arachne creates a flawless tapestry depicting reenactments of adulterous acts by the gods. The enraged Athena destroys Arachne's creation and fills Arachne with guilt that leads to depression and suicide. Rather than bring Arachne back to life she brings her back as a spider.</p><p></p><p>Actaeon stumbles upon a nude Artemis and takes a momentary glance. She curses him from speaking again lest she turn him into a stag. He fails to remain silent is transformed and ripped apart by his own hounds.</p><p></p><p>Zeus has a dalliance with a young woman. About to be caught, he changes her into a cow. Hera not being stupid asks for the cow as a gift and has it guarded by a giant. Zeus still desiring her sends Hermes to get her back which results in a pissed off Hera ordering her stung forever in the ass by a fly so that it can never rest. The young woman was in a no win situation. If she failed to comply, Zeus being Zeus most likely rapes her.</p><p></p><p>So let's see given that Olympians kill their priests and priestess or curse them into becoming monsters for breaking vows of chastity and resort to overkill when some mortal pisses them off or get the better of them (for the latter look up Sisyphus), I don't think it is unreasonable to think that deities expect priests to uphold tenets or have abilities taken away. Hell, if the Olympians bestowed powers to their priests and the priests and they committed transgressions, I think the penalty would be more serious than losing a few minor powers.</p><p></p><p>Want an example from the Old Testament? God told Moses to strike a rock and it would create water in the desert. Moses follows directions and water appears. Next time, God tells Moses to talk to the rock and water will appear. Instead of talking to the rock, Moses strikes it again. Not only is there no water, Moses is forbidden from leading the Israelites into the Promised Land. Striking the rock again was not following God's orders and not believing in him to produce water.</p><p></p><p>Now, lets look at Paladins. </p><p>Galahad gets his power from his purity (Chastity) and both the Grail Quest are all about obedience to Christian doctrine and placing Christ first</p><p></p><p>From cliffnotes.com analysis of Le Morte d'Arthur Book 6: The Tale of the Holy Grail: The Miracle of Galahad</p><p></p><p>"In the Grail section, the underlying weakness and futility of Arthur's court, which up to now Malory has only suggested by ironic juxtapositions, is laid out openly: Merlin's Round Table is a figure for the world, in medieval Christian doctrine the source of three dangerous temptations — "lust of the flesh, lust of the eyes, and pride of life" (see 1 John 2:16), that is, sinful concupiscence, covetousness, and overweening pride. Whatever the original function of the lady in Arthur's world, she has become in the end not the genteel embodiment of social judgment, but the object of sexual lust; whatever the original function of knightly accouterments, titles, and lands, they have degenerated into things sinfully coveted; and chivalric heroism has in the same way degenerated into sinful pride."</p><p></p><p>"The fundamental idea behind the Grail section is spelled out in the passage entitled "The Miracles." For all their loyalty to King Arthur, Launcelot and all worldly knights are guilty, finally, of "treason": the true king is Christ, and the true knightly code is not Arthur's, but God's — chastity (at best, virginity), charity and abstinence (as opposed to covetousness), and humility (as opposed to knightly pride)."</p><p></p><p>So, Galahad remains "pure" and avoids the three dangerous temptations. He is the blessed warrior with abilities such as the strength of ten men in battle, the ability to Lay Hands, etc. In contrast, Lancelot falls because he covets Guinevere and commits adultery with her and/or Elaine (using trickery to convince Lancelot that she is Guinievere) and loses the blessings he had been given prior.</p><p></p><p>So, in all of the cases there are penalties for violating a deity's orders, religious beliefs or tenets. They are my references for having consequences. It doesn't matter that in the source material that I draw from that the people might not know the exact consequences or what exactly might be considered a transgression (although vows of celibacy seem to be obvious). What matters to me is that they occur and I try to give my players some good guidelines before character creation and, should it be necessary, warnings during play to let them know (as I wrote in another post, this player was the first and only time that I needed to warn a player. It is also the deity with the most stringent requirements of her priests and priestesses (including Paladins of which she is the only deity with them)).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Greg K, post: 6322971, member: 5038"] Universally, less straight forward and obvious, yes, because it depends on culture and source. That does not mean, that one cannot choose sources for influence. Greek and Roman Mythology are often about obedience and respect for the gods. The exact punishments might not be known by the offender, but there is going to be punishment. Examples of a priest or priestess violating oaths of celibacy is killed or turned into a monster (in the latter case, the punishment is for being raped in the deity's temple by another deity). Other examples of punishments (not necessarily of priests or priestesses) A guy was turned into a female by Hera for striking two mating snakes and later became her priestess . Years later he is changed back by seeing two snakes mating and leaving them alone. Since he had experience as both a man and a woman, he was asked to settle an argument between Hera and Zeus as to whether men or women get more pleasure during sex. The man takes Zeus's side and an enraged Hera curses the man with blindness and not even Zeus can break the curse. Athena challenges a boastful Arachne to a weaving contest and becomes enraged when Arachne creates a flawless tapestry depicting reenactments of adulterous acts by the gods. The enraged Athena destroys Arachne's creation and fills Arachne with guilt that leads to depression and suicide. Rather than bring Arachne back to life she brings her back as a spider. Actaeon stumbles upon a nude Artemis and takes a momentary glance. She curses him from speaking again lest she turn him into a stag. He fails to remain silent is transformed and ripped apart by his own hounds. Zeus has a dalliance with a young woman. About to be caught, he changes her into a cow. Hera not being stupid asks for the cow as a gift and has it guarded by a giant. Zeus still desiring her sends Hermes to get her back which results in a pissed off Hera ordering her stung forever in the ass by a fly so that it can never rest. The young woman was in a no win situation. If she failed to comply, Zeus being Zeus most likely rapes her. So let's see given that Olympians kill their priests and priestess or curse them into becoming monsters for breaking vows of chastity and resort to overkill when some mortal pisses them off or get the better of them (for the latter look up Sisyphus), I don't think it is unreasonable to think that deities expect priests to uphold tenets or have abilities taken away. Hell, if the Olympians bestowed powers to their priests and the priests and they committed transgressions, I think the penalty would be more serious than losing a few minor powers. Want an example from the Old Testament? God told Moses to strike a rock and it would create water in the desert. Moses follows directions and water appears. Next time, God tells Moses to talk to the rock and water will appear. Instead of talking to the rock, Moses strikes it again. Not only is there no water, Moses is forbidden from leading the Israelites into the Promised Land. Striking the rock again was not following God's orders and not believing in him to produce water. Now, lets look at Paladins. Galahad gets his power from his purity (Chastity) and both the Grail Quest are all about obedience to Christian doctrine and placing Christ first From cliffnotes.com analysis of Le Morte d'Arthur Book 6: The Tale of the Holy Grail: The Miracle of Galahad "In the Grail section, the underlying weakness and futility of Arthur's court, which up to now Malory has only suggested by ironic juxtapositions, is laid out openly: Merlin's Round Table is a figure for the world, in medieval Christian doctrine the source of three dangerous temptations — "lust of the flesh, lust of the eyes, and pride of life" (see 1 John 2:16), that is, sinful concupiscence, covetousness, and overweening pride. Whatever the original function of the lady in Arthur's world, she has become in the end not the genteel embodiment of social judgment, but the object of sexual lust; whatever the original function of knightly accouterments, titles, and lands, they have degenerated into things sinfully coveted; and chivalric heroism has in the same way degenerated into sinful pride." "The fundamental idea behind the Grail section is spelled out in the passage entitled "The Miracles." For all their loyalty to King Arthur, Launcelot and all worldly knights are guilty, finally, of "treason": the true king is Christ, and the true knightly code is not Arthur's, but God's — chastity (at best, virginity), charity and abstinence (as opposed to covetousness), and humility (as opposed to knightly pride)." So, Galahad remains "pure" and avoids the three dangerous temptations. He is the blessed warrior with abilities such as the strength of ten men in battle, the ability to Lay Hands, etc. In contrast, Lancelot falls because he covets Guinevere and commits adultery with her and/or Elaine (using trickery to convince Lancelot that she is Guinievere) and loses the blessings he had been given prior. So, in all of the cases there are penalties for violating a deity's orders, religious beliefs or tenets. They are my references for having consequences. It doesn't matter that in the source material that I draw from that the people might not know the exact consequences or what exactly might be considered a transgression (although vows of celibacy seem to be obvious). What matters to me is that they occur and I try to give my players some good guidelines before character creation and, should it be necessary, warnings during play to let them know (as I wrote in another post, this player was the first and only time that I needed to warn a player. It is also the deity with the most stringent requirements of her priests and priestesses (including Paladins of which she is the only deity with them)). [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Is Anyone Unhappy About Non-LG Paladins?
Top