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Is Anyone Unhappy About Non-LG Paladins?
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<blockquote data-quote="Savage Wombat" data-source="post: 6335925" data-attributes="member: 1932"><p>I don't understand why I keep having to repeat myself. My position is that the definition of Paladin as a class with no alignment restrictions is not inclusive of the definition of Paladins as always LG. And that some people continue to propose that their definition IS inclusive. That there is no reasonable disagreement on this point. My position is that this is an error.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>No, you are still trying to twist my point into another strawman. I am not defending inclusion or exclusion - I am making the statement that a common argument used on this forum is based on a misunderstanding of the other sides viewpoint - and that those making that common argument do so out of a desire to seem like the compromise position. Please do not try to "infer" what I am "really" saying - I am only trying to make the point I have stated.</p><p></p><p>My personal opinion? I think that paladins should derive their powers from virtue, not from a particular church. And that while those virtues can differ, I think that the characteristic traits of paladins (defenders of belief, inspiring figures, etc.) are more communal than individual, and thus belong in the lawful side of the structure. And further, I think that removing alignment-based powers from the class detract from its feel. So I would prefer that, in the absence of multiple individually-constructed classes, I would prefer that paladins be at minimum Lawful. It is entirely possible that the "oath" motif of 5e might satisfy me when we see the final version. I just can't see a CN fighter that serves the elven goddess of insects as being anywhere remotely in the "paladin" archetype.</p><p></p><p>But if someone says, as in another thread a while back, "I just can't see a Chaotic character swearing an oath in that fashion" - he's immediately beset with "why can't you let me play what I want" arguments in lieu of actually discussing the point.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Savage Wombat, post: 6335925, member: 1932"] I don't understand why I keep having to repeat myself. My position is that the definition of Paladin as a class with no alignment restrictions is not inclusive of the definition of Paladins as always LG. And that some people continue to propose that their definition IS inclusive. That there is no reasonable disagreement on this point. My position is that this is an error. No, you are still trying to twist my point into another strawman. I am not defending inclusion or exclusion - I am making the statement that a common argument used on this forum is based on a misunderstanding of the other sides viewpoint - and that those making that common argument do so out of a desire to seem like the compromise position. Please do not try to "infer" what I am "really" saying - I am only trying to make the point I have stated. My personal opinion? I think that paladins should derive their powers from virtue, not from a particular church. And that while those virtues can differ, I think that the characteristic traits of paladins (defenders of belief, inspiring figures, etc.) are more communal than individual, and thus belong in the lawful side of the structure. And further, I think that removing alignment-based powers from the class detract from its feel. So I would prefer that, in the absence of multiple individually-constructed classes, I would prefer that paladins be at minimum Lawful. It is entirely possible that the "oath" motif of 5e might satisfy me when we see the final version. I just can't see a CN fighter that serves the elven goddess of insects as being anywhere remotely in the "paladin" archetype. But if someone says, as in another thread a while back, "I just can't see a Chaotic character swearing an oath in that fashion" - he's immediately beset with "why can't you let me play what I want" arguments in lieu of actually discussing the point. [/QUOTE]
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