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Message: <blockquote data-quote="DrSpunj" data-source="post: 1109245" data-attributes="member: 994">Don't agree with that, Darklone Since Spike Stones is a 4th level spell and is far better, IMO, I'd have to disagree with you. Here's the 3.5 SRD version:So a Druid that could cast Spike Stones would be 7th level at minimum (with a minimum Wisdom of 14). Here's Briar Web as a 4th level spell compared for this Druid.Breaking it down the Components, Casting Time and Range are the same. The Area for Briar Web is static and actually slightly bigger than the seven 20' squares our caster gets with Spike Stones, but the caster has a lot of flexibility with the area which I think makes Spike Stones quite a bit better. They both carry the same limitation of only being useful/castable in specific environments. Duration goes to Spike Stones with 7 hrs vs Briar Web's 7 minutes. Briar Web gets a point for not being affected by Spell Resistance, while Spike Stones may not penetrate SR. Just looking at the basic parameters Spike Stones comes out ahead, if not by a lot.Effect-wise I can't see how they come out anywhere near equal.Briar Web automatically entangles anyone who stands there (without doing damage), and causes 1d4+1/lvl for each attempted action plus a Reflex save to avoid being entangled. Movement is reduced by half. Max that's 11 points of damage per round.Spike Stones similarly reduces all movement by half but does 1d8 per 5' of movement and any damage done forces a Reflex save or your movement speed is reduced by half (essentially to 1/4 in the spell area). That condition lasts for the at least the entire combat unless you have a Cure handy to remove it (after all, your buddies with the Cure spells aren't much help when you have to spend multiple rounds getting out of the spell's area of effect to reach them, taking 1d8 damage for each 5'!).Briar Web is powerful, but doesn't come any where near this 4th level spell power-wise.Is it too powerful for a 2nd level spell? I don't know. I think a lot of that depends on whether you think Entangle is overpowered as a 1st level spell. Comparing it to Web is pretty easy, but I haven't done that yet and don't have time right now. I want to look at some other 2nd and 3rd level spells before I put in my vote.BTW, I'm another player in this group. I think Entangle would've done just as a good a job last night since any that failed their Reflex saves and got Entangled would've essentially been out of the fight just as surely as those affected by the Briar Web. With Briar Web Nail couldn't have them do anything or they would've died, but an effective -4 on their ranged attacks (since them breaking out of the entangle effect is very unlikely with such high DCs) would've nullified 90% of their attacks. The battle would not have been significantly changed if a few them shot a couple arrows or managed to break out of the spell's area and engage our party. His one "sergeant" goblin caught in the area of the Briar Web was on the edge and managed to escape on his next turn.DrSpunj</blockquote>

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