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<blockquote data-quote="Nail" data-source="post: 1113296" data-attributes="member: 224">Excellent posts!&nbsp; Thanks.I was out-of-computer-range this weekend, gaming with another friend.&nbsp; I took a 6th level elven ranger, who memorized Entangle twice.To put it bluntly, I rocked.&nbsp; As an archer, I entangled them, then picked them off one by one as they slogged towards me.&nbsp; Even the Hill Giant (CR 7) had no chance, once the surprise round was over. Fear my 3 caster level prowess!Entangle ain't no 1st level spell, even given its environmental restrictions.&nbsp; Thus any spell based on it is not balanced.&nbsp; Briar web is based on Entangle, so.....The problems I see with Briar Web are area of effect and no save for the damage taken.&nbsp; It's true that for the situation which I describe, not even a Ref save would have saved those (poor, sterotyped, mis-judged, defenceless!) goblins.&nbsp; They were dead meat once the area of effect was centered on them.I've seen above the argument: &quot;But they take no damage if they do nothing&quot;.&nbsp; Hey, that's great, but not only does that instantly take multiple combatants out of a fight, but it also effectively dooms them to a quick death once their un-Briar Webed compatriots are killed or driven off.In otherwords, it's a 2nd level save or die spell for multiple (2 to 20!) low level combatants.&nbsp; Not good.Not 2nd level as written (IMHO!).<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

[QUOTE="Nail, post: 1113296, member: 224"] Excellent posts! Thanks. I was out-of-computer-range this weekend, gaming with another friend. I took a 6th level elven ranger, who memorized [i]Entangle[/i] twice. To put it bluntly, I rocked. As an archer, I [i]entangled[/i] them, then picked them off one by one as they slogged towards me. Even the Hill Giant (CR 7) had no chance, once the surprise round was over. Fear my 3 caster level prowess! [I]Entangle[/i] ain't no 1st level spell, [u]even given[/u] its environmental restrictions. Thus any spell based on it is not balanced. [i]Briar web[/i] is based on [i]Entangle[/i], so..... The problems I see with [i]Briar Web[/i] are area of effect and no save for the damage taken. It's true that for the situation which I describe, not even a Ref save would have saved those (poor, sterotyped, mis-judged, defenceless!) goblins. They were dead meat once the area of effect was centered on them. I've seen above the argument: "But they take [u]no[/u] damage if they do nothing". Hey, that's great, but not only does that instantly take [i]multiple[/i] combatants out of a fight, but it also effectively dooms them to a quick death once their un-[i]Briar Webed[/i] compatriots are killed or driven off. In otherwords, it's a 2nd level save or die spell for multiple (2 to 20!) low level combatants. Not good. Not 2nd level as written (IMHO!). :) [/QUOTE]

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