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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
Is character death acceptable in 4e? If so, how often?
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<blockquote data-quote="Lancelot" data-source="post: 4815013" data-attributes="member: 30022"><p>Experience from my games has been a curve. Character death used to be extremely common until my players figured out some of the tricks to staying alive. Now, it has diminished to the point that a character dying in a session is unusual.</p><p></p><p>Some stats...</p><p></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Campaign #1: Approx 24 (5-hour) sessions with 12 fatalities, including two TPKs.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Campaign #2: Approx 16 sessions with 8 fatalities, including one TPK.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Campaign #3 (current): 16 sessions with 6 fatalities - but only 2 fatalities in the last 8 sessions.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Campaign #4 (current): 16 sessions with 4 fatalities - but only 1 fatality in the last 13 sessions.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Campaign #5 (current): 3 sessions, no fatalities.</li> </ul><p>Raise dead is almost non-existent in my campaigns. It might very rarely be found on a ritual scroll or cast by an NPC, but it is otherwise unavailable. Can't learn it, can't buy it.</p><p></p><p>Monsters sometimes coup de grace in my campaigns, if warranted by the tactical position and the monster type. A dragon or a goblin usually won't coup - it'd rather take down the other threats. However, a demon or an undead (particularly things like ghouls, or creatures that have flavor text that states they revel in annihilation and killing) will often coup a fallen foe. My players know this, expect it, and don't complain about it - it's part of our social contract. By the same token, however, I only use coups sparingly. If they're fighting 4 demons and one of the PCs drops, the demon who dropped the PC *might* use their next round to attempt a coup... but all the other demons will keep battling other targets.</p><p></p><p>My experience is that approximately 10% of our PC deaths are due to an "outright kill" - the PC is reduced to "negative bloodied" in one round through sheer bad luck. Maybe they're low on hit points, and they get critted by two brutes in the same round. This generally only happens in the low heroic tier.</p><p></p><p>About 30% of our PC deaths are due to TPKs. About 20% of our PC deaths are due to coups, as noted above. And the final 40% of PC deaths are due to one character "bleeding out" while the others are desperately engaged in a battle. This is the segment which has seem the most reduction in recent months (used to be 60%+; is now probably less than 20%).</p><p></p><p>So what has so dramatically reduced the rate of PC death in my campaigns over time? Two things...</p><p></p><ol> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">The players used to wait until a downed PC had accumulated "two death boxes" before panicking about getting them back on their feet. It seemed like better strategy to stay fighting until they were nearly dead, because taking down the enemy was more important. Unfortunately, it took them many PC deaths to figure out the flaws in this plan. If they get locked down or simply fail their Heal check in that critical round when they need to "kick up" their fallen ally, there will be trouble. Also, waiting until a fallen PC has two death boxes means that, even if they get them back into the fight, there is a high probability that they could be killed by a single death save if they get knocked down again. Nowadays, the players generally leap on a fallen friend the moment he goes down... even if it costs them some short-term advantage against the enemy.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">We realized the power of using a Heal check to give an ally an additional saving throw. Nowadays, it's not uncommon for one of them to use a standard action to try and remove conditions or ongoing damage from one of their allies... even if it costs them their own chance to attack. For example, the whole party gets dazed - it's probable that the first character in the initiative order (say, a defender) will use his sole standard action to trigger the next character's saving throw - giving him a chance to not be dazed before the start of his turn. This has increased their survival chances by a huge margin.</li> </ol></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Lancelot, post: 4815013, member: 30022"] Experience from my games has been a curve. Character death used to be extremely common until my players figured out some of the tricks to staying alive. Now, it has diminished to the point that a character dying in a session is unusual. Some stats... [LIST] [*]Campaign #1: Approx 24 (5-hour) sessions with 12 fatalities, including two TPKs. [*]Campaign #2: Approx 16 sessions with 8 fatalities, including one TPK. [*]Campaign #3 (current): 16 sessions with 6 fatalities - but only 2 fatalities in the last 8 sessions. [*]Campaign #4 (current): 16 sessions with 4 fatalities - but only 1 fatality in the last 13 sessions. [*]Campaign #5 (current): 3 sessions, no fatalities. [/LIST] Raise dead is almost non-existent in my campaigns. It might very rarely be found on a ritual scroll or cast by an NPC, but it is otherwise unavailable. Can't learn it, can't buy it. Monsters sometimes coup de grace in my campaigns, if warranted by the tactical position and the monster type. A dragon or a goblin usually won't coup - it'd rather take down the other threats. However, a demon or an undead (particularly things like ghouls, or creatures that have flavor text that states they revel in annihilation and killing) will often coup a fallen foe. My players know this, expect it, and don't complain about it - it's part of our social contract. By the same token, however, I only use coups sparingly. If they're fighting 4 demons and one of the PCs drops, the demon who dropped the PC *might* use their next round to attempt a coup... but all the other demons will keep battling other targets. My experience is that approximately 10% of our PC deaths are due to an "outright kill" - the PC is reduced to "negative bloodied" in one round through sheer bad luck. Maybe they're low on hit points, and they get critted by two brutes in the same round. This generally only happens in the low heroic tier. About 30% of our PC deaths are due to TPKs. About 20% of our PC deaths are due to coups, as noted above. And the final 40% of PC deaths are due to one character "bleeding out" while the others are desperately engaged in a battle. This is the segment which has seem the most reduction in recent months (used to be 60%+; is now probably less than 20%). So what has so dramatically reduced the rate of PC death in my campaigns over time? Two things... [LIST=1] [*]The players used to wait until a downed PC had accumulated "two death boxes" before panicking about getting them back on their feet. It seemed like better strategy to stay fighting until they were nearly dead, because taking down the enemy was more important. Unfortunately, it took them many PC deaths to figure out the flaws in this plan. If they get locked down or simply fail their Heal check in that critical round when they need to "kick up" their fallen ally, there will be trouble. Also, waiting until a fallen PC has two death boxes means that, even if they get them back into the fight, there is a high probability that they could be killed by a single death save if they get knocked down again. Nowadays, the players generally leap on a fallen friend the moment he goes down... even if it costs them some short-term advantage against the enemy. [*]We realized the power of using a Heal check to give an ally an additional saving throw. Nowadays, it's not uncommon for one of them to use a standard action to try and remove conditions or ongoing damage from one of their allies... even if it costs them their own chance to attack. For example, the whole party gets dazed - it's probable that the first character in the initiative order (say, a defender) will use his sole standard action to trigger the next character's saving throw - giving him a chance to not be dazed before the start of his turn. This has increased their survival chances by a huge margin. [/LIST] [/QUOTE]
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Is character death acceptable in 4e? If so, how often?
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