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Message: <blockquote data-quote="javcs" data-source="post: 4819769" data-attributes="member: 43677">It seems to me that 4th has made actually dying at once a whole lot harder and a lot easier.In 3.x, character death was easiest at low levels when nobody had much HP and at higher levels when save or dies occurred with regularity and when damage per hit would hit the massive damage threshold more regularly.In 4th, it's a lot harder to die at low levels because you, in general, have more HP than in 3.x (leaders are 7+ Con score +5*level, defenders are 9+ Con score +6*level, strikers are 7+Con score +5*level, and controllers are 6+ Con score +4*level). The HP gap is most pronounced at lower levels, and will start slipping the other way for non-controllers and some strikers at higher levels, especially for more HP-optimized builds in 3.x. The HP differential is further slanted in favor of 4th due to dying at negative bloodied, and that's not an easy number to get to.Coup de Grace is basically useless for an instant killshot - since you have to exceed the target's bloodied value in damage - which means that you generally can't expect a creature to easily finish off a dropped creature in one round any more.Massive Damage and Save or Dies have basically been removed. However, there is, relatively speaking a lot less in-combat healing available at higher level when compared to 3.x, and relatively speaking more in combat healing available at lower levels when compared to 3.x. Out of combat healing has been increased, relatively speaking at low levels, and decreased at high levels, since the number of healing surges one has available increases slowly.In 3.x player attack, damage output, ac, and (good) saves progressed at a comparatively similar rate to that of level-appropriate monsters or even exceeded that progression, based on build. However, in 4th, it seems that player attack, defenses, and to an extent damage output doesn't increase at a comparatively similar rate as that of monsters.To get back to the point - death from sheer HP damage is vastly tougher in 4th. However, once you hit negatives, unless you get healed, death isn't far away, since bonuses to saving throws are scarce and generally only +1s.Now, some of these changes are, imo, good, and others not so much.I don't think I'd mind overmuch if poor choices and bad luck in combination could viably kill a PC at an at or near level encounter, and one of the two dropped at PC. The further above level you go, the easier it should be for one or more PCs to go down and stay down. As you go further below level, it should mainly be excess bad luck and gross stupidity putting a PC down and keeping them down.IMO, death should always be a possibility - especially if leveled characters aren't supposed to literally be everywhere - otherwise (a) the world would be overflowing with PC-quality NPCs, and (b) there's no real reason for there to be poor quality/low-level NPCs requiring the services of 1st and otherwise low level PC groups - they could just round up a group of drinking buddies/friends and handle the problem on their own.</blockquote>

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