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General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Is Combat Tedious on Purpose?
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<blockquote data-quote="jgsugden" data-source="post: 9615582" data-attributes="member: 2629"><p>Care to elaborate on how a tedious game is not a game that drags? I may be misunderstanding what you mean, here, but the definition of something dragging is that it is passing by tediously. </p><p></p><p>There are many ways for PCs to fight a hill giant. One is whack-a-mole. PCs attack, then giant attacks, then PCs attack, then giant attacks ....</p><p></p><p>Another is dynamic. The Hill Giant throws a barrel of oil as a trash lob. Instead of poisoning the target, they are covered in flammable oil. Then an archer from the distance shoots a flaming arrow at the PC trying to light them on fire. This should spawn several questions for the PCs. Was the barrel of flammable liquid just convenient for the hill giant, or did it plan it out? If so - how does a 5 Int Hill Giant get the idea? Who was the archer? Was there a reason why that PC was targeted? Is there information to be gathered from the Hill Giant? ... Then the giant climbs on a nearby roof. Why? Is it fleeing? Or is there something up there it can use?</p><p></p><p>If you're finding that you're just going back and forth, applying conditions, dealing damage, and trying to figure out how many rounds of combat are left ... there is more that can be done. Whether you agree or not, I suggest trying to go overboard on the first combat of next session by adding in things for the PCs to think about during the combat - and that advance the story by painting a story that they'll put together over several combats.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You're clearly free to do as you choose - but I've played D&D in the 70s, 80s, 90s, 00s, 10s and 20s. I've played with over 100 DMs, been a DM for hundreds of players, and I've played over 300 characters for multiple sessions each (with some running for a decade and others getting just a few sessions). I am probably in the top 1% of most experienced players in the world - and likely well into that 1%.</p><p></p><p>When I talk to the people that sat across the table from me and we remember the past we remember a variety of things. We remember clutch die rolls. We remember one liners that were perfectly delivered. We remembers a variety moments in time that can come in a one shot as easily as a campaign with an engrossing story...</p><p></p><p>... but we also remember and really treasure the stories. We remember the betrayals, the revelations, the decisions and the regrets. </p><p>We use shorthand to speak to each other like, "You're walking into the Blood Dale again". </p><p></p><p>When we play together again we make connections in game that make us feel like geniuses or idiots.. "Wait ... how do you spell that name ... with a double S? I cast disintegrate on the kid! I don't need to roll insight ... I told you years ago that I'd be on the lookout for his trademark fake names... and what would happen if I saw it!"</p><p></p><p>A DM I played with in the 1990s called me up not <em>too</em> long ago. He put me on video chat and explained that the PC I ran between 1992 and 1998 - an AD&D (yes run old school) Elven Magic-User/Thief who had retired from adventuring to run a Resistance against an oppressive nation - was being approached by the PCs in his current game in that setting. I slipped into a character I had only touched a few times in 30 years and spoke to his players - his kids and their friends - as they asked about what really occurred at the Battle of Bridgeport - and why they erected a statue of the Kimm, the Butcher of Bridgeport, when he slew so many people. They asked about what happened when we tried to Pierce the Veil. They asked me what happened to the Silver Blade ... which I drew from my scabbard. All of those answers changed their plans for the campaign entirely and it felt so bleeping amazing.</p><p></p><p>Those are the things that you miss out on by running a game with no story. D&D without story is like a series of dalliances while a campaign with a story is like a relationship. They can be amazing ... individually ... but they never have a chance to benefit from that connection that spans sessions and time.</p><p></p><p>Again, you're free to just run individual sessions with no story in a sandbox world that could just as easily be randomly generated ... and that can be a lot of fun ... but everything you get out of that can be had in a campaign with a great story ... and it can be combined with so much more.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="jgsugden, post: 9615582, member: 2629"] Care to elaborate on how a tedious game is not a game that drags? I may be misunderstanding what you mean, here, but the definition of something dragging is that it is passing by tediously. There are many ways for PCs to fight a hill giant. One is whack-a-mole. PCs attack, then giant attacks, then PCs attack, then giant attacks .... Another is dynamic. The Hill Giant throws a barrel of oil as a trash lob. Instead of poisoning the target, they are covered in flammable oil. Then an archer from the distance shoots a flaming arrow at the PC trying to light them on fire. This should spawn several questions for the PCs. Was the barrel of flammable liquid just convenient for the hill giant, or did it plan it out? If so - how does a 5 Int Hill Giant get the idea? Who was the archer? Was there a reason why that PC was targeted? Is there information to be gathered from the Hill Giant? ... Then the giant climbs on a nearby roof. Why? Is it fleeing? Or is there something up there it can use? If you're finding that you're just going back and forth, applying conditions, dealing damage, and trying to figure out how many rounds of combat are left ... there is more that can be done. Whether you agree or not, I suggest trying to go overboard on the first combat of next session by adding in things for the PCs to think about during the combat - and that advance the story by painting a story that they'll put together over several combats. You're clearly free to do as you choose - but I've played D&D in the 70s, 80s, 90s, 00s, 10s and 20s. I've played with over 100 DMs, been a DM for hundreds of players, and I've played over 300 characters for multiple sessions each (with some running for a decade and others getting just a few sessions). I am probably in the top 1% of most experienced players in the world - and likely well into that 1%. When I talk to the people that sat across the table from me and we remember the past we remember a variety of things. We remember clutch die rolls. We remember one liners that were perfectly delivered. We remembers a variety moments in time that can come in a one shot as easily as a campaign with an engrossing story... ... but we also remember and really treasure the stories. We remember the betrayals, the revelations, the decisions and the regrets. We use shorthand to speak to each other like, "You're walking into the Blood Dale again". When we play together again we make connections in game that make us feel like geniuses or idiots.. "Wait ... how do you spell that name ... with a double S? I cast disintegrate on the kid! I don't need to roll insight ... I told you years ago that I'd be on the lookout for his trademark fake names... and what would happen if I saw it!" A DM I played with in the 1990s called me up not [I]too[/I] long ago. He put me on video chat and explained that the PC I ran between 1992 and 1998 - an AD&D (yes run old school) Elven Magic-User/Thief who had retired from adventuring to run a Resistance against an oppressive nation - was being approached by the PCs in his current game in that setting. I slipped into a character I had only touched a few times in 30 years and spoke to his players - his kids and their friends - as they asked about what really occurred at the Battle of Bridgeport - and why they erected a statue of the Kimm, the Butcher of Bridgeport, when he slew so many people. They asked about what happened when we tried to Pierce the Veil. They asked me what happened to the Silver Blade ... which I drew from my scabbard. All of those answers changed their plans for the campaign entirely and it felt so bleeping amazing. Those are the things that you miss out on by running a game with no story. D&D without story is like a series of dalliances while a campaign with a story is like a relationship. They can be amazing ... individually ... but they never have a chance to benefit from that connection that spans sessions and time. Again, you're free to just run individual sessions with no story in a sandbox world that could just as easily be randomly generated ... and that can be a lot of fun ... but everything you get out of that can be had in a campaign with a great story ... and it can be combined with so much more. [/QUOTE]
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