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Message: <blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 9615846" data-attributes="member: 6790260">According to the actual 5e rules, twelve CR 2 creatures vs 5 level 6 characters would be not only deadly, it would be well beyond deadly, over double deadly in fact.By comparison, if scaled to 4e levels, both of your claims are completely incorrect. CR 2 is equivalent to saying a monster is meant to be able to take on a full party of level 2 characters, aka a level 3 solo in 4e terms (as 2 5e levels = 3 4e levels). Level 6 characters in 5e are equivalent to level 9 characters in 4e terms, so you'd be fielding monsters 6 levels below the party, but they're very strong monsters because they're solos. The monsters absolutely would not need 20s to hit. At level 9, a character has gained +2 to two ability scores, one of which almost certainly should increase their AC. Characters would be expected to have +1 or +2 magic armor at this point, so they would (most likely) have: Leather or Hide (AC 12 or 13), +5 ability mod, +2 from magic armor, +4 from half-level bonus = 23 or 24.Creatures in 4e (whether using the original creature stats or MM3/MV stats) have a base hit bonus of +5 for a "zero level" monster, increasing by 1 per level, so these would have +8. So their maximum roll is 28, meaning they hit on a 15 or higher (16 or higher for better-armored PCs). Further, while the PCs will almost always land their attacks, because these are Solos they have 4x as much HP as a Standard monster. The party lands almost every attack, but they have so much HP to chew through, these monsters still stand a chance of taking somebody down. A typical character should be doing very roughly 32 damage on an ordinary hit, vs the 192 HP these solos have, meaning each one takes around six ordinary hits to kill. They're gonna last quite a while, and with a whopping 12 of them it'll take a while to take 'em down. A slow and probably grindy fight, but still challenging especially if there's more to it than just 12 creatures on an empty flat plane.So....yeah. Your CR 2 monster horde is not only deadly, it's super ultra deadly, exactly the opposite of what you've described, and the 4e monsters you described, while not hard, would still pose a challenge simply because of how many there are, seeing as you'd expect an average of 3 landed hits per round (and around 20% of those hits will be crits!)</blockquote>

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