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Message: <blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 9631695" data-attributes="member: 6790260">Honestly, not really sure what you see in either version of 5e that makes it so fast/non-tedious. Sure, some classes (read: non-casters) have slightly fewer things to do. I still find that combats took--and take--quite a while despite being billed as "fast", even at level 5-6.For me, at least, it's sort of a worst-of-both-worlds thing on this front. It isn't a meaningful time savings over an engaged group for the longer-combat editions (e.g. any given combat rarely take less than 20-30 min even with players who are engaged and know what they're doing), but because they've stripped out SO MUCH of the possible mechanical heft and engagement, it's 20-30 minutes of....mostly doing a lot of the exact same things over and over. It's all the dearth of yesteryear, without nearly enough speed. It's most of the slow of more recent D&D design, without the satisfying chew.A spicy take, considering I've exclusively played digitally.Except that in combat, which is where 99.9% of these tools are used, there really aren't that many interactions that need to be handled. There really aren't THAT many ways to decide how to stick 'em with the pointy end. There really aren't THAT many ways to cast a spell that makes somebody die. Etc.It's the out-of-combat stuff where that so-called "tactical infinity" actually manifests (it really isn't infinite there either, humans are shockingly predictable, repetitive, and similar to one another), but the people who design these VTTs know that. They know how pointless it is to try to capture that part within a digital space. That's why they never even try. Just as with 4e, the rules ACTUALLY DO "get out of the way". They say: "You know more about what you want from the non-combat than we do. So we're going to mostly avoid giving rules for that." (I say "mostly" because 4e did have SCs, but people act like they're some kind of horrible straightjacket imposition when they emphatically are not anything like that.)</blockquote>

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