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<blockquote data-quote="chriton227" data-source="post: 6522683" data-attributes="member: 33263">I don't know that the particular dragon encounter that we have been discussing is a useful baseline for the effectiveness of wizards and the impact of the concentration rules, unless you are trying to set the power level of wizards to &quot;game breaking&quot;.&nbsp; If I recall correctly from the other thread, it was a CR13 legendary dragon in its lair with 2 troll allies and two magical traps that can't be set off by the dragon, against a 10th level party.&nbsp; The dragon by itself is considered Deadly by the encounter guidelines in the DMG, or above deadly once you factor in allies, traps, and the fact that the lair itself is hostile terrain to the party but not the enemies.&nbsp; In a Deadly encounter, it is assumed that one or more PCs will die, beyond deadly should likely be a TPK.&nbsp; The dragon by itself without the hazardous terrain and without any allowances for being in it's lair would have been slightly above a hard encounter for a party of four L11 characters.&nbsp; The difference from L10 to L11 can be significant, cantrips go up in damage, casters get 6th level spells, fighters get a third attack (being able to action surge for 6 attacks is huge), paladins get always on divine smite, etc. In my opinion, this is a badly designed encounter in RoT, and not one the party should win by killing the dragon.&nbsp; This is backed up by the adventure text. As written, the encounter should end with effectively a party victory long before the dragon is defeated, much like the dragon encounter over the keep at the beginning of HotDQ.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="chriton227, post: 6522683, member: 33263"] I don't know that the particular dragon encounter that we have been discussing is a useful baseline for the effectiveness of wizards and the impact of the concentration rules, unless you are trying to set the power level of wizards to "game breaking". If I recall correctly from the other thread, it was a CR13 legendary dragon in its lair with 2 troll allies and two magical traps that can't be set off by the dragon, against a 10th level party. The dragon by itself is considered Deadly by the encounter guidelines in the DMG, or above deadly once you factor in allies, traps, and the fact that the lair itself is hostile terrain to the party but not the enemies. In a Deadly encounter, it is assumed that one or more PCs will die, beyond deadly should likely be a TPK. The dragon by itself without the hazardous terrain and without any allowances for being in it's lair would have been slightly above a hard encounter for a party of four L11 characters. The difference from L10 to L11 can be significant, cantrips go up in damage, casters get 6th level spells, fighters get a third attack (being able to action surge for 6 attacks is huge), paladins get always on divine smite, etc. In my opinion, this is a badly designed encounter in RoT, and not one the party should win by killing the dragon. This is backed up by the adventure text. As written, the encounter should end with effectively a party victory long before the dragon is defeated, much like the dragon encounter over the keep at the beginning of HotDQ. [/QUOTE]

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