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Message: <blockquote data-quote="RigaMortus" data-source="post: 871199" data-attributes="member: 1077">They may very well be at the local tavern, or maybe governing the town, or at the keep which boarders the realm.  I'd say if a 20th level NPC was asked by a level 3 to help them deal with fire giants, they'd try to help them, unless they don't care.  If your DM doesn't want it to work, then there is nothing you can do about it, is there?  After all, he is the one which determines where high level NPCs are, if there are any at all.  Seriously, can't you figure this stuff out on your own w/o coming up with something obviously dumb?  Challenge them to dominos?  I would think the local populace would find a place to hide.  Take what they need to survive and either hide in the "hidden" storm cellars or become refugees in another town until the fire giants pass.  Remember The Two Towers (I know you at least saw this movie, if not read the book.  Who on these boards hasn't seen/read it?  That was rhetorical)?  Theoden feared an evasion, so what did he do?  They left the town.  Of course, they also went to Helms Deep to fight it out.  If such a place is not available, then simply fleeing to other safe areas is a good idea.As one of the "Heroes" I would suggest this to them if they did not think of it on their own.  I would also think the town would be grateful that they had us watching over the fire giant threat and warning them about it.  The town can be rebuilt, lives can't.  Unless you want to pay for some Raise Dead spells...You other idea about a tribute is also plausible, but more risky.  They may not accept and attack anyway.  They might accept and attack anyway for that matter.  Depends if you want to take the risk.If you want to use a dumb plan (I think fighting them head on is dumb for the villagers to do...  brave, but dumb...  there is always that fine line, isn't there?) then you get what is coming to you.First off, you don't have to lead them away permanently.  Just long enough to come up with something better.  Being one of the heroes my main goal would to be to lead them away from the population first.  And here we go once again with our  assumptions.  Let's assume the heroes know the layout of the land (since no one specificed) and know where each village, druid circle, etc. is. and can navigate away from them.  They have invisibility and pass without trace and who knows what other spells (can I assume what spells they have?).  First, take off that Ring of Silence.  Invisibly they could yell or whatever at them, and when they go to investigate, lead them astray.  If you have two people invisible, you can even split them up.Another idea would be to give them a warning while you were invisible and pass without trace was on.  Tell them a large army is coming and if they value their lives, they would do best to leave asap and not harm anyone.  Bluff check...You mean besides material goods?  How about knowledge (or at least, "fake" knowledge)?  "I know where this really nice... is and I can show you but..."  And so on...How kind of you <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />  As for blowing smoke up their butts, that is where Bluff comes in.  Remember, I said they should be confident in their negotiaion tactics (you can read that as, "has a really high Diplomacy or Bluff")Well, it would delay them at the least, until you can come up with something better.  Remember, these are quick-thinking ideas I came up with.  The PCs had more time to think of other viable solutions that I hadn't mentioned, given that they were tracking them and that the giants were asleep and all.  I didn't say ALL my ideas would work, or that they were even good <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />  This is mostly a case of DM vs. Player anyway.  If they DM wants them to succeed, he will.  If he wants them pounded into the dirt because of the (in his mind) stupid idea of negotation, then he will.A very possible consequence.  Again, it depends on how good your Diplomacy and Bluff is, and whether or not your DM things you idea is good enough and if he wants you to succeed or not.First off, I ain't your honey, so don't get fruity with me.  I don't swing that way boy.  Secondly, I didn't say "You started it" all I said was, I was RETURNING the pompus atttiude you showed me.  If you want to take something innocent I posted, twist it around to try and make me look like I am insulting you or others, then expect this type of attitude back.  If on the other hand you want to try and have a civil conversation, I am all for it.  And if you honestly think I said something derogatory, bring it up to me in a mature manner.  Saying things like, "You know you were being insulting...  blah, blah, blah." will not score points with me.  As I said, you don't KNOW how I meant it.  You may think you do, but you don't.  Let's just try to keep this civil (and let me see if I can finish the rest of your replies in a civil manner as well).I see.  So you prefer a more predictable game, then a random one.  You know, the same exact thing you described there COULD (and sometimes does) occur in our games.  But that isn't the only way it COULD play out.The invisible Rogues crept up on the fire giants, lay their swords at their throats, and were ready to plunge it deep into their necks.  But one of the Rogues felt a hint of compassion.  He could not kill this living creature while it lay sleeping in a peaceful slumber.  The Rogue hesitated for too long, the giant was now awake.Fire Giant: Evil Humans, kill them!  They killed Fargash!Rogue: Hold it there pal, we didn't kill anyone.  What are you talking about.Fire Giants: You insignificant scum, you realize I could crush you right now?  I should after what you did to my brother.Rogue: Please, we do not want any trouble.  Our lives are at your mercy.  Tell us of your brother, perhaps we can help?Fire Giants: You humans killed him.  We were minding our own business, collecting slaves, then Jack-the-Giant-Killer attacked us and killed Fargash, my brother.  For no good reason!  We fled, and vowed vengence.Rogue: And this is why you attack our villages?  We saw you.Fire Giant: Yes, for Fargash's honor.Rogue: It seems there has been a horrid mistake here.  This giant-killer attacked you without provocation?Fire Giant: Yeah, we was just collecting slaves and...Well I'm not gonna write this out any further, so I'll just tell ya the point.  The point is, there CAN be two (or more) sides to the story and each one can be just as viable and not necessarily "fairy-tale-ish".  The end result I was building up to was, that these giants could be converted to the side of Good, of course it could take a long time.  First you party shows them the error of their ways, as well as show how the giant-killer was wrong.  Then each side tries to make reperations.  Then eventually peace talks begin.Had you been rash and killed them, you would have never made such valuable allies, the townsfolk would have never made such valuable protectors and traders.Another result could have been that the giants just wanted to go home.  They were stuck in the middle of the frozen waste and they only attacked because Humans attacked them first.  They are evil because they support slavery.  But killing these two won't change that since it is going on back home.  So there is no need to kill them.The point is, you never know.  To assume one thing because it is "usually" that way or because it is more "convienient" to do so, lies quickly to the path of Evil.  My example isn't any less valid than yours.  Less common?  Yes, but not less valid nor impossible.</blockquote>

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