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<blockquote data-quote="Janx" data-source="post: 5646992" data-attributes="member: 8835">well, in the original definition i gave, I should have said &quot;win, lose or draw&quot;.&nbsp; I think that's simple a technical mistake on my part for trying to define that which was intended to include chess, soccer, etc.Ultimately, I was defining a &quot;Competitive game&quot; wherein the outcome for a player is win, lose or a draw.&nbsp; Which should cover (barring another mistake on my part) sports, board games, card games, and some video games.games without winningg conditions in the rules did not seem to be games.Which is where I think Hussar and Ahn. are discussing.it reminds me of a tale of Risk I was told to prove some business point.&nbsp; 2 players conspired together to win, and when it came down to just them, they ended the game.&nbsp; They declared they had one.&nbsp; the other players declared it was a draw, because the rules didn't say they had to fight to the end.In any case, its a situation where the game's winning conditions differ from the players' goals.D&amp;D is a game that doesn't specifically have winning conditions.&nbsp; But it is chock full of player determined goals.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Janx, post: 5646992, member: 8835"] well, in the original definition i gave, I should have said "win, lose or draw". I think that's simple a technical mistake on my part for trying to define that which was intended to include chess, soccer, etc. Ultimately, I was defining a "Competitive game" wherein the outcome for a player is win, lose or a draw. Which should cover (barring another mistake on my part) sports, board games, card games, and some video games. games without winningg conditions in the rules did not seem to be games. Which is where I think Hussar and Ahn. are discussing. it reminds me of a tale of Risk I was told to prove some business point. 2 players conspired together to win, and when it came down to just them, they ended the game. They declared they had one. the other players declared it was a draw, because the rules didn't say they had to fight to the end. In any case, its a situation where the game's winning conditions differ from the players' goals. D&D is a game that doesn't specifically have winning conditions. But it is chock full of player determined goals. [/QUOTE]

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