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Message: <blockquote data-quote="JamesonCourage" data-source="post: 6132195" data-attributes="member: 6668292">I really wonder if this is necessarily true; I guess it depends on what you mean by "character power", though. You could have a level 13 character in my game with 3 hit points, no attack / defense bonus, etc., and only some Craft / Knowledge skills, if you wanted to. Is this power? In a form, but even then, you can purposefully keep yourself from spending points, and thus keep yourself from upping your "character power".I basically use them as a "gatekeeper", in a sense. I don't have any feats that have a level prerequisite, but I do have things that require a certain amount of base attack, for example, and BA is capped at level +1. All, certain spell uses are only available as of certain levels, etc. (if you buy the Specialization or Lost versions of the magic).I'm still not getting why levels make for a much more restrained toolbox, but that's okay. I think I agree that levels make for a more restrained toolbox, I just think the difference is fairly negligible as compared to a point-buy system without level caps. Again, though, I do think the game without level caps on abilities is probably slightly more free. Anyways, thanks for the discussion. As always, play what you like <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />In the "toolkit" discussion, I very much agree with you that I find classes so much more confining that levels.Right, me too, generally. This is how my RPG / M&M works. And, from what I know, HERO and GURPS, but I haven't played either system.M&M 2e is the edition I have, but I don't have any expansions. Probably won't get any, as I only run a one-shot with it every 4-6 months, and we always use the same characters. You can definitely do a lot with just the basic book, though.My RPG allows for a lot of nuance with limitations on powers, too. You can essentially make up your own limitations, and they save you points; there are Minor, Moderate, and Major, and they get progressively more restrictive (obviously) for more points saved. So, you could say "I can't run faster when wearing armor" and apply that as a limitation, or you could say "I have to roll on this chart I'm making up, with the die roll giving me these results" and apply that as a limitation. (I'm actually using the latter for a class called a Blacksoul, which is a type of necromancer whose magic corrupts their mind.)So, you can basically go for very simple limitations, or pretty complex, depending on what you're feeling, and just how nuanced you want the ability. You might have a spell-like ability to call lighting that can only be summoned from above when it's cloudy, for example, rather than the typical standard lightning bolt from the caster. It's both flavorful and saves you points, which has turned out pretty well in practice.Of course, the downside is that without classes, it can take a while to make things. The upside is you get exactly what you want for your character, and he's definitely very unique at the end of it. It works for us, but now that we're using classes (that I made using my point-buy rules), I once again see the upside to it. It's a lot faster to make characters, and it's still very flavorful; for example, I know that a certain type of necromancy magic might drive people insane (Blacksouls), rather than having all PCs / NPCs build their own, disparate necromancers. I also might not have the Bloodletters, which is a break-off group, who harm their body to save their mind (with a slightly different take on necromancy, of course).At any rate, I could go on for a while about what's good about both systems, but after playing point-buy with my system for so long, I was admittedly kinda surprised about the upsides to using classes. I think it's a lot better since I had such important creative control during the creation of the classes, but there's more in favor of classes than I thought a year ago, for sure. Anyways, thanks for the discussion, and sorry for rambling! As always, play what you like <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

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