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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 7213269" data-attributes="member: 4937">Yes, but the question has never been whether we can distinguish between games and stories; the question is whether D&amp;D itself is a story or a game.Embrace the healing power of &quot;and&quot;.&nbsp; Oh dear.Seriously, you are dealing with a whole website filled with some of the foremost experts in role playing games many or most of whom have IQ's over 140.&nbsp; I doubt there is a scholarly treatise that can match even a fraction of the brainpower available on EnWorld.&nbsp; I certainly know that the literature on this subject and the textbooks tend to be.... lacking, by comparison.&nbsp;&nbsp; And if amateur enthusiasts like myself don't have enough credentials for you, then there are certainly many EnWorld posters that are giants in the field.I don't know what you are trying to say there, but going by the literal meaning of what you wrote, that's nonsense.&nbsp; In fact, I'd say that since a story is inherently a form of communication, until it interacts with something (a reader, for example) it isn't even a story.&nbsp;&nbsp; Though, I suppose that's a 'sound of one hand clapping' sort of assertion.&nbsp;&nbsp; Still, stories inherently interact, and once again, your definition of story seems to preclude the possibility of interactive fiction.&nbsp;&nbsp; Yet, you keep telling me that point is moot.You keep trying to argue that games and stories are distinguishable.&nbsp; That's not really any thing you need to bother with, since no one to my knowledge has claimed otherwise.&nbsp; What's being asked is whether a RPG game is a game or a story, and I feel the question is misguided.&nbsp; It's both, or it wouldn't be a role-playing game.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 7213269, member: 4937"] Yes, but the question has never been whether we can distinguish between games and stories; the question is whether D&D itself is a story or a game. Embrace the healing power of "and". Oh dear. Seriously, you are dealing with a whole website filled with some of the foremost experts in role playing games many or most of whom have IQ's over 140. I doubt there is a scholarly treatise that can match even a fraction of the brainpower available on EnWorld. I certainly know that the literature on this subject and the textbooks tend to be.... lacking, by comparison. And if amateur enthusiasts like myself don't have enough credentials for you, then there are certainly many EnWorld posters that are giants in the field. I don't know what you are trying to say there, but going by the literal meaning of what you wrote, that's nonsense. In fact, I'd say that since a story is inherently a form of communication, until it interacts with something (a reader, for example) it isn't even a story. Though, I suppose that's a 'sound of one hand clapping' sort of assertion. Still, stories inherently interact, and once again, your definition of story seems to preclude the possibility of interactive fiction. Yet, you keep telling me that point is moot. You keep trying to argue that games and stories are distinguishable. That's not really any thing you need to bother with, since no one to my knowledge has claimed otherwise. What's being asked is whether a RPG game is a game or a story, and I feel the question is misguided. It's both, or it wouldn't be a role-playing game. [/QUOTE]

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