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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 5634229" data-attributes="member: 87792">Oh, it's changed all right.  What's changed is that the ruleset has got a lot better, as has the guidance.Taking one example, 2e had a lot of editorial columns about not running Monty Haul games.  Because it needed to.  3e, instead of ranting about these nebulous Monty Haul games took the smart move of actually providing the DMs with decent wealth by level guidance so they'd actually know if they were running a Monty Haul game.  Much simpler, more effective, and much less ink wasted because better design and baked in guidance means that the game itself no longer provides the trap that people were ranting against.  4e goes one step beyond with the treasure parcel concept to show new DMs how big and how frequent doses the treasure should be handed out in.  It's baked into the rules so DMs can choose to ignore it if they like, but the concept of ranting about Monty Haul games with respect to 4e is akin to ranting about the overuse of buggy whips on modern cars. Likewise munchkinism.  In 2e if you razor optimised you would outshine people at what they were supposed to be good at.  Which was no fun for them.  In 4e, if you min-max you'll be the best you are at what you do but with rare exceptions you won't overshadow anyone else.  So it isn't anything like as much of a problem and where it is, instead of wasting ink WoTC produces errata.  (There's stil the classic fighter outdamaging some strikers, but that's about the only one that springs to mind).  Min/Maxing what's on your character sheet has little to do with how immersive the experience is - if anything done well in 4e it enhances it by making your character a better representation of what you have visualised.  And the classic exhortation was like an exhortation to eat red meat in favour of reading books - two things that are largely unrelated but both from the right angle can be seen as issues.</blockquote>

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